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[Music]

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this

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spread

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[Music]

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welcome to somewhere in the skies and i

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can't believe i'm saying this

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but this week we have yet another first

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time guest to the show

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you know him if you know ufos david

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marlar is with us today

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to talk all about his research with

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triangular ufos

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obviously a big interest of mine uh

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we're going to talk all about his

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his being featured on the history

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channel television series

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unidentified his latest ufo file

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acquisition and so so much more so i am

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so happy to finally

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have david marlar here david thank you

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so much for joining me on somewhere in

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the skies my man

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no thank you ryan it's great to be here

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and i have to ask

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is that the office the office that we

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all know in the background there

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yes this is the ultimate man cave

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researchers yeah this is where i spent

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the majority of my time that much to my

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wife's disappointment but

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uh yes this is actually where we filmed

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that episode of unidentified

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and uh as you alluded to in the

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introduction there's been a sizable

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acquisition since then and so there was

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a lot of data here before

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but you know i went from 15 file

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cabinets now to 30

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and i can tell you they're chock full of

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history

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and data case files news clippings audio

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recordings microfilm

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you name the medium i've got it and so

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uh it's it's

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an exciting time right now to have all

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of this information and

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hopefully during the course of the show

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we'll talk about some of the work that's

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going to be done

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in 2021 and beyond with regard to that

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information

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oh absolutely i really want to dive into

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um you know obviously everything you

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have but the latest

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acquisition which really excited me um

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again

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you you use man cave whenever i picture

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that it's you know

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a basketball hoop and sports and in a

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bar with a

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you know all the liquor and then here i

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see the man cave that i would dream of

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as well so

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this is the ufo equipment great minds

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think alike

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um i love it man well hey before we get

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to

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everything we're gonna talk about

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tonight i have to do the origin story

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question

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as many shows often do you're probably

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sick of it at this point

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but for any of um my listeners my

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viewers who

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who aren't familiar with you and your

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work maybe give us a little rundown of

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how you got

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to where you are today and uh how you

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first became interested in the ufo topic

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no it's a valid question and i actually

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in my book i alluded to that before i

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start delving into the subject

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i guess i should give people a little

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bit of background uh reader's digest

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version because i think most people

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probably have already uh

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heard some of this um my first

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recollection of hearing the term ufo

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was when i was five years old way back

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in 1973 and i'm dating myself by telling

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the story

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um but uh at that time there was a wave

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of ufo sightings down in piedmont

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missouri which is in southeast missouri

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uh about two two and a half hours south

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of st louis

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my father grew up there and so we had

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family that lived down there

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as well as many friends and i remember

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my father

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talking about it at the time because it

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had garnered a lot of local media

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attention in the st

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louis market which is where i lived at

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the time and

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my father my brothers and my sister were

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piling in the car on weekends with

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thermoses of coffee and binoculars to go

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you know quote unquote look for ufos

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down in piedmont

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and many people were doing that the

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police were having issues with people

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parking along the county roads there

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looking for these lights in the sky and

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my father

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had never seen anything nor had any of

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my siblings but

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some of his relatives living down there

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had had sightings of objects lights

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as well as uh they knew the people that

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were

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prominently being featured in the

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newspapers uh talking about what they

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had witnessed

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and so that was my first introduction i

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remember the excitement and the

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enthusiasm with my

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my older siblings piling in the car and

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i was five years old so

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unfortunately i had to stay home but

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that was my

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introduction if you will at a very early

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age to the ufo subject

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uh fast forward four years later 1977

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my sister and her husband had a close

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encounter with the ufo

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outside kansas city missouri around

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midnight and it was one of those

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situations i hate to say it it sounds so

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cliche

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but it's true um and this is before

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close encounters uh

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actually the same year uh but uh they

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were driving they came to a stop

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uh stop sign and there was this beam of

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light that illuminated the vehicle the

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road and illuminated some of the area

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around their vehicle no sound no down

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wash it wasn't a police helicopter with

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a spotlight

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um but just as soon as the the light

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shined on them if the light

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disappeared and uh my sister's husband

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was able to look out uh the window and

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he could see some type of structured

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object above them with multi-colored

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lights

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as well as this intense white light so i

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remember hearing

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years and years at christmas and

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thanksgiving when the family would get

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together they would you know retell that

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story

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not to the general public of course but

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it was just kind of a little family

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secret

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um and then a year after that in 1978

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in a town called elsbury missouri which

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is north of st

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louis there was another wave of ufo

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sightings

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and in this particular instance cattle

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mutilations as well

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and that had again garnered a lot of st

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louis media attention and so

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it was really a successive series of

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events that kind of solidified my

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interest in the subject

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but it really wasn't until 1990 fast

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forwarding to 1990 where i i heard about

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mufon

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and i was shocked that there was

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actually people that investigated the

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subject

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actively and so i immediately signed up

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for mufon

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became a field investigator trainee and

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then worked my way up to illinois state

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director for about seven or eight years

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i was in that position and um really

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you know cut my teeth uh with mufon and

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then as i was

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uh continually amassing a lot of

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historical material there were areas i

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really wanted to focus on

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uh delving into the historical records

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and so

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um i decided my time with mufon you know

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uh

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it was a great period that i thoroughly

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enjoyed but i felt i needed to move on i

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felt

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you know we all have our calling in this

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field as far as what we should be

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gravitating towards

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and i really wanted to gravitate towards

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more field investigation

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but also coupling that with the

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historical research

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because we have 70 75 plus years worth

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of case files

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and i just felt like a lot of people

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weren't delving into that as much as

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wanting to go out and get yet another

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ufo report

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and my attitude is i know i want to wade

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into the data

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because there's a lot of people then as

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well as today i think you'll agree ryan

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that

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they talk a lot and they talk about what

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they believe

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but at the end of the day and i i don't

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mean to sound crass when i say this i

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know it comes across this way

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it doesn't matter what you believe

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rather it only matters what the data

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reflects

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and if you're truly going to look at

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this from a scientific approach if

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you're

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taking ufos as your new religion then

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yes you can believe whatever you want

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but

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you know i tend to be an objective

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researcher and it doesn't matter what my

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personal beliefs are

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unless it's based or you know bolstered

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by what the data reflects and so

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that's what i've been trying to do is

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look for patterns in the data and of

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course

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the most prominent example of that is

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the the book on triangular ufos looking

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at that one particular subset

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of ufos in in the overall data but

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certainly there's a lot of other areas

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that i've explored and i've been also

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actively tracking down historic

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witnesses that are still alive in some

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of these old cases

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um and so really just a diverse

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background in the subject and then

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collecting and archiving the material

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and making it accessible to other

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researchers and really sharing the data

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i think that's so important no one

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individual i believe is going to crack

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this mystery wide open it's going to be

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a collective effort

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and a community effort and so i try to

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work with as many people

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as possible in in that endeavor and so

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that's kind of it in a nutshell that's a

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very important thing to stress

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i think two things first uh the belief

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issue as um in juxtaposition

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of the uh the data and also the

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sharing of information yeah now there's

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this thing in the ufo field

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that a lot of us come across is people

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hold things very close to the chest

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yeah they want that one case that's

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going to make them

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you know shine or save for a rainy day

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fund but

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um i can say this with probably the

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largest

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database of files and documents and

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historical context of cases

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that you have um you are one of the most

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accessible researchers out there where

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we can

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come to you and say hey how many

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triangles in 1988 boom

286
00:09:20,790 --> 00:09:19,360
you got it yes that which i love about

287
00:09:23,190 --> 00:09:20,800
you dave um

288
00:09:25,190 --> 00:09:23,200
but actually the thing that that drew me

289
00:09:27,670 --> 00:09:25,200
to you first wasn't actually

290
00:09:29,829 --> 00:09:27,680
your research into triangular ufos it

291
00:09:32,310 --> 00:09:29,839
was your research into the battle of los

292
00:09:33,269 --> 00:09:32,320
angeles oh yes um a case that i've

293
00:09:37,269 --> 00:09:33,279
actually never

294
00:09:39,030 --> 00:09:37,279
covered on my show believe it or not um

295
00:09:41,269 --> 00:09:39,040
yeah yeah so i was wondering could you

296
00:09:43,590 --> 00:09:41,279
maybe give us like a little brief

297
00:09:46,630 --> 00:09:43,600
rundown if that's even possible of

298
00:09:48,790 --> 00:09:46,640
what the battle of la was and uh yeah

299
00:09:51,750 --> 00:09:48,800
the research you did into it personally

300
00:09:53,269 --> 00:09:51,760
i will do that but ryan before i answer

301
00:09:55,030 --> 00:09:53,279
that i don't know if you realize the

302
00:09:57,190 --> 00:09:55,040
timing of your question you do realize

303
00:09:58,949 --> 00:09:57,200
today is the anniversary

304
00:10:02,870 --> 00:09:58,959
of course i knew that what are you

305
00:10:05,829 --> 00:10:04,230
this morning when i woke up and looked

306
00:10:07,110 --> 00:10:05,839
at the date and i'm like oh my god it's

307
00:10:09,590 --> 00:10:07,120
the anniversary of the battle

308
00:10:10,949 --> 00:10:09,600
right that that proves right there dave

309
00:10:11,750 --> 00:10:10,959
that i haven't covered it on my show

310
00:10:14,389 --> 00:10:11,760
before

311
00:10:16,710 --> 00:10:14,399
i didn't know the actual date so i've uh

312
00:10:18,069 --> 00:10:16,720
you've just outed me as a lazy ufo

313
00:10:20,870 --> 00:10:18,079
researcher but

314
00:10:21,590 --> 00:10:20,880
no please please please put me to shame

315
00:10:23,509 --> 00:10:21,600
if you will

316
00:10:24,630 --> 00:10:23,519
well no i i've tried to investigate that

317
00:10:26,470 --> 00:10:24,640
case like many others

318
00:10:28,230 --> 00:10:26,480
looking at the factual information

319
00:10:30,230 --> 00:10:28,240
that's out there not going down the

320
00:10:33,110 --> 00:10:30,240
rabbit hole of conspiracy tales

321
00:10:35,350 --> 00:10:33,120
and misinformation as unfortunately some

322
00:10:37,430 --> 00:10:35,360
quote unquote researchers out there have

323
00:10:38,790 --> 00:10:37,440
muddied the waters if you will with less

324
00:10:41,670 --> 00:10:38,800
than credible information

325
00:10:43,269 --> 00:10:41,680
spurious tales uh purported government

326
00:10:44,310 --> 00:10:43,279
documents that have no established

327
00:10:46,790 --> 00:10:44,320
provenance

328
00:10:48,389 --> 00:10:46,800
um the research that i've been doing i

329
00:10:50,630 --> 00:10:48,399
think is is one of the more extensive

330
00:10:52,630 --> 00:10:50,640
endeavors with regard to this case

331
00:10:54,630 --> 00:10:52,640
uh and i do have to cite because i

332
00:10:55,670 --> 00:10:54,640
always love to cite my resources for

333
00:10:57,670 --> 00:10:55,680
anyone that that

334
00:10:59,990 --> 00:10:57,680
has observed or attended any of my

335
00:11:01,509 --> 00:11:00,000
lectures and seen my research

336
00:11:03,190 --> 00:11:01,519
i have to give credit to my friend and

337
00:11:03,990 --> 00:11:03,200
colleague barry greenwood it was barry

338
00:11:06,710 --> 00:11:04,000
greenwood

339
00:11:07,670 --> 00:11:06,720
who in the early years of foia had

340
00:11:09,430 --> 00:11:07,680
secured really

341
00:11:11,350 --> 00:11:09,440
all of the government documentation

342
00:11:12,710 --> 00:11:11,360
legitimate government documentation that

343
00:11:15,269 --> 00:11:12,720
we have to date

344
00:11:17,350 --> 00:11:15,279
uh with regard to this and so what i did

345
00:11:18,150 --> 00:11:17,360
is i took the information that barry had

346
00:11:20,150 --> 00:11:18,160
gathered

347
00:11:21,430 --> 00:11:20,160
and then i tried to correlate that with

348
00:11:23,750 --> 00:11:21,440
all of the original

349
00:11:25,190 --> 00:11:23,760
and digital copies i had of all of the

350
00:11:26,389 --> 00:11:25,200
newspaper accounts

351
00:11:28,230 --> 00:11:26,399
and then coupled that with some

352
00:11:28,630 --> 00:11:28,240
additional insights that i was able to

353
00:11:31,430 --> 00:11:28,640
uh

354
00:11:33,590 --> 00:11:31,440
to gather anti-aircraft guns went into

355
00:11:35,190 --> 00:11:33,600
action against unidentified aircraft in

356
00:11:37,670 --> 00:11:35,200
the los angeles area

357
00:11:39,110 --> 00:11:37,680
shortly after 3 a.m pacific war time

358
00:11:41,110 --> 00:11:39,120
this morning

359
00:11:42,630 --> 00:11:41,120
the anti-aircraft guns began barking

360
00:11:44,069 --> 00:11:42,640
during a blackout

361
00:11:47,590 --> 00:11:44,079
ordered by the fourth interceptor

362
00:11:49,509 --> 00:11:47,600
command at 2 25 am

363
00:11:51,670 --> 00:11:49,519
the unidentified object which some

364
00:11:53,750 --> 00:11:51,680
sources thought might be a blimp

365
00:11:54,949 --> 00:11:53,760
moved slowly down the pacific coast from

366
00:11:57,990 --> 00:11:54,959
santa monica

367
00:11:59,910 --> 00:11:58,000
and disappeared south of long beach

368
00:12:01,030 --> 00:11:59,920
army officials declined to comment on

369
00:12:03,269 --> 00:12:01,040
the possibility

370
00:12:05,509 --> 00:12:03,279
that the object might have been a blip

371
00:12:07,750 --> 00:12:05,519
however it required nearly 30 minutes to

372
00:12:11,110 --> 00:12:07,760
travel some 25 miles

373
00:12:13,110 --> 00:12:11,120
far slower than an airplane watchers on

374
00:12:13,670 --> 00:12:13,120
the rooftop of the columbia broadcasting

375
00:12:15,829 --> 00:12:13,680
building

376
00:12:18,230 --> 00:12:15,839
in the heart of hollywood could plainly

377
00:12:20,790 --> 00:12:18,240
see the flashes of guns and searchlights

378
00:12:22,870 --> 00:12:20,800
sweeping the skies in a wide arc along

379
00:12:24,550 --> 00:12:22,880
the coastal area

380
00:12:26,230 --> 00:12:24,560
concussion of the shells could be felt

381
00:12:30,470 --> 00:12:26,240
in downtown los angeles

382
00:12:32,310 --> 00:12:30,480
15 miles away u.s army planes quickly

383
00:12:34,470 --> 00:12:32,320
took to the dark skies

384
00:12:36,230 --> 00:12:34,480
but whether they contacted the object

385
00:12:38,550 --> 00:12:36,240
has not been announced

386
00:12:40,389 --> 00:12:38,560
army officials say they will not comment

387
00:12:43,990 --> 00:12:40,399
until they receive a full report

388
00:12:45,750 --> 00:12:44,000
of the action by 3 30 a.m observers said

389
00:12:48,870 --> 00:12:45,760
the object appeared to be over the

390
00:12:50,790 --> 00:12:48,880
south of long beach searchlights closely

391
00:12:53,430 --> 00:12:50,800
followed the object down the coast

392
00:12:55,269 --> 00:12:53,440
and kept it centered in their glare

393
00:12:56,389 --> 00:12:55,279
shells frequently could be seen bursting

394
00:12:59,110 --> 00:12:56,399
near the object

395
00:13:00,150 --> 00:12:59,120
but none appeared to hit it the shooting

396
00:13:04,150 --> 00:13:00,160
stopped about 3

397
00:13:05,910 --> 00:13:04,160
30 am the shooting brought warfare to

398
00:13:07,430 --> 00:13:05,920
the front door of this city of a million

399
00:13:10,949 --> 00:13:07,440
and a quarter population

400
00:13:12,550 --> 00:13:10,959
for the first time since december 7th

401
00:13:14,150 --> 00:13:12,560
approximately 20 minutes after the

402
00:13:15,990 --> 00:13:14,160
firing died down

403
00:13:18,629 --> 00:13:16,000
the ship returned and headed westward

404
00:13:21,030 --> 00:13:18,639
from long beach toward santa monica

405
00:13:23,030 --> 00:13:21,040
the guns went into action again hurling

406
00:13:24,150 --> 00:13:23,040
round after round of shells at the

407
00:13:25,910 --> 00:13:24,160
object

408
00:13:27,750 --> 00:13:25,920
the second barrage appeared to be closer

409
00:13:29,509 --> 00:13:27,760
to downtown los angeles

410
00:13:31,190 --> 00:13:29,519
since watchers could hear the concussion

411
00:13:33,030 --> 00:13:31,200
of the guns more clearly

412
00:13:34,230 --> 00:13:33,040
and the flash of bursting shells was

413
00:13:35,990 --> 00:13:34,240
brighter

414
00:13:37,910 --> 00:13:36,000
then the ship disappeared for the second

415
00:13:40,069 --> 00:13:37,920
time over the ocean

416
00:13:43,750 --> 00:13:40,079
but in a nutshell uh in the early

417
00:13:46,150 --> 00:13:43,760
morning hours february 25th 1942

418
00:13:47,509 --> 00:13:46,160
in the wake of pearl harbor uh and this

419
00:13:49,110 --> 00:13:47,519
is the one element i always like to

420
00:13:50,550 --> 00:13:49,120
start off with because the skeptics

421
00:13:51,910 --> 00:13:50,560
never address this when they try to

422
00:13:55,269 --> 00:13:51,920
poo-poo this case

423
00:13:56,949 --> 00:13:55,279
um we had three separate army radar

424
00:13:58,310 --> 00:13:56,959
tracking stations that was tracking an

425
00:14:00,310 --> 00:13:58,320
inbound target

426
00:14:02,069 --> 00:14:00,320
coming in towards the california coast

427
00:14:04,389 --> 00:14:02,079
from the northwest

428
00:14:05,110 --> 00:14:04,399
and they were able to track it for 120

429
00:14:07,590 --> 00:14:05,120
miles

430
00:14:09,189 --> 00:14:07,600
and the radar operator at the time is

431
00:14:10,790 --> 00:14:09,199
quoted in the government documents

432
00:14:14,230 --> 00:14:10,800
stating it was a strong

433
00:14:15,670 --> 00:14:14,240
valid target and admittedly in 42 radar

434
00:14:17,509 --> 00:14:15,680
was extremely crude

435
00:14:19,030 --> 00:14:17,519
but i found it interesting that they

436
00:14:19,750 --> 00:14:19,040
they mentioned the radar operator by

437
00:14:21,590 --> 00:14:19,760
name

438
00:14:23,189 --> 00:14:21,600
and they also talk about the fact that

439
00:14:25,430 --> 00:14:23,199
it was a solid target

440
00:14:26,310 --> 00:14:25,440
and they felt it was a legitimate target

441
00:14:29,430 --> 00:14:26,320
anyway

442
00:14:31,110 --> 00:14:29,440
in the wake of this this uh radar target

443
00:14:35,670 --> 00:14:31,120
being tracked heading towards uh

444
00:14:38,710 --> 00:14:35,680
santa monica from the santa barbara area

445
00:14:40,550 --> 00:14:38,720
shortly thereafter uh the air raid

446
00:14:43,430 --> 00:14:40,560
sirens went into effect because at the

447
00:14:44,230 --> 00:14:43,440
time we had a huge military presence

448
00:14:46,389 --> 00:14:44,240
because

449
00:14:47,829 --> 00:14:46,399
again in the wake of pearl harbor we

450
00:14:49,910 --> 00:14:47,839
felt that the japanese

451
00:14:51,590 --> 00:14:49,920
might be uh ready to make a mainland

452
00:14:54,550 --> 00:14:51,600
assault on california

453
00:14:56,069 --> 00:14:54,560
so there were uh army emplacements any

454
00:14:59,430 --> 00:14:56,079
aircraft battery guns

455
00:15:01,750 --> 00:14:59,440
literally in uh schoolyard playgrounds

456
00:15:02,629 --> 00:15:01,760
and at the corner of uh certain housing

457
00:15:05,430 --> 00:15:02,639
blocks

458
00:15:06,310 --> 00:15:05,440
um they were deeply embedded within that

459
00:15:09,430 --> 00:15:06,320
whole area

460
00:15:13,110 --> 00:15:09,440
of uh california and so

461
00:15:15,590 --> 00:15:13,120
when this radar target was being tracked

462
00:15:16,470 --> 00:15:15,600
uh that was what is essentially

463
00:15:19,350 --> 00:15:16,480
initiated

464
00:15:21,590 --> 00:15:19,360
an air raid alert and so uh most of

465
00:15:23,670 --> 00:15:21,600
california was completely blacked out

466
00:15:24,710 --> 00:15:23,680
and the anti-aircraft batteries were put

467
00:15:26,389 --> 00:15:24,720
on green alert

468
00:15:28,150 --> 00:15:26,399
a green status alert meaning that they

469
00:15:30,790 --> 00:15:28,160
were ready to fire if they

470
00:15:32,310 --> 00:15:30,800
observed a target and they did observe a

471
00:15:33,670 --> 00:15:32,320
target they actually observed several

472
00:15:34,790 --> 00:15:33,680
targets and this is where it gets a

473
00:15:36,710 --> 00:15:34,800
little murky

474
00:15:39,269 --> 00:15:36,720
uh many people have postulated that

475
00:15:41,430 --> 00:15:39,279
there were multiple objects in the air

476
00:15:42,710 --> 00:15:41,440
witnesses describe seeing squadrons of

477
00:15:45,269 --> 00:15:42,720
fighter planes uh

478
00:15:46,470 --> 00:15:45,279
bombers all types of reports that you

479
00:15:47,990 --> 00:15:46,480
can imagine

480
00:15:50,470 --> 00:15:48,000
um but what i tried to do is be

481
00:15:52,710 --> 00:15:50,480
conservative in looking at the accounts

482
00:15:54,629 --> 00:15:52,720
and really focusing on more objective

483
00:15:55,990 --> 00:15:54,639
data in other words for a moment

484
00:15:57,749 --> 00:15:56,000
let's just discount the eyewitness

485
00:16:00,470 --> 00:15:57,759
testimony and say

486
00:16:02,150 --> 00:16:00,480
okay people can be bad observers in a

487
00:16:03,350 --> 00:16:02,160
heightened state of hysteria which some

488
00:16:04,790 --> 00:16:03,360
people were there were some heart

489
00:16:06,310 --> 00:16:04,800
attacks as a result of this because

490
00:16:07,269 --> 00:16:06,320
people felt like the japanese were

491
00:16:09,829 --> 00:16:07,279
attacking

492
00:16:10,389 --> 00:16:09,839
um i decided to focus on two elements

493
00:16:13,189 --> 00:16:10,399
one

494
00:16:13,590 --> 00:16:13,199
the radar we had three separate radars

495
00:16:18,310 --> 00:16:13,600
two

496
00:16:19,829 --> 00:16:18,320
eights which was the first short range

497
00:16:23,030 --> 00:16:19,839
radar the army used

498
00:16:24,230 --> 00:16:23,040
and the sr the scr 270 which was a long

499
00:16:27,110 --> 00:16:24,240
range radar

500
00:16:28,710 --> 00:16:27,120
and the sr the scr 270 was actually the

501
00:16:30,629 --> 00:16:28,720
same radar array that tracked

502
00:16:32,550 --> 00:16:30,639
japanese planes coming in to attack

503
00:16:33,910 --> 00:16:32,560
pearl harbor which is a rather

504
00:16:36,870 --> 00:16:33,920
interesting side note

505
00:16:37,749 --> 00:16:36,880
but the fact that we have three radars

506
00:16:40,389 --> 00:16:37,759
correlated

507
00:16:41,430 --> 00:16:40,399
on one target they were tracking that

508
00:16:43,670 --> 00:16:41,440
inbound target

509
00:16:44,550 --> 00:16:43,680
and then beyond that we have the famous

510
00:16:46,069 --> 00:16:44,560
photograph

511
00:16:48,389 --> 00:16:46,079
that most people are familiar with

512
00:16:49,749 --> 00:16:48,399
having looked at the case online

513
00:16:52,230 --> 00:16:49,759
and i really think it's the photograph

514
00:16:53,110 --> 00:16:52,240
that has really uh been a catalyst for

515
00:16:55,990 --> 00:16:53,120
really uh

516
00:16:57,269 --> 00:16:56,000
capturing people's attention um but we

517
00:16:59,189 --> 00:16:57,279
had those two

518
00:17:01,509 --> 00:16:59,199
things that go beyond just eyewitness

519
00:17:03,509 --> 00:17:01,519
testimony we had radar confirmation

520
00:17:04,710 --> 00:17:03,519
and photographic evidence which even

521
00:17:06,390 --> 00:17:04,720
today we would

522
00:17:08,230 --> 00:17:06,400
really raise the bar of credibility if

523
00:17:11,510 --> 00:17:08,240
we had those elements beyond

524
00:17:12,949 --> 00:17:11,520
eyewitness testimony well the object in

525
00:17:14,549 --> 00:17:12,959
question based on all the information

526
00:17:16,789 --> 00:17:14,559
i've been able to gather from newspaper

527
00:17:19,829 --> 00:17:16,799
accounts military records etc

528
00:17:22,549 --> 00:17:19,839
the object came in off the west coast

529
00:17:23,590 --> 00:17:22,559
it moved over santa monica it then moved

530
00:17:26,230 --> 00:17:23,600
inland

531
00:17:27,029 --> 00:17:26,240
and then moved to the south and then

532
00:17:29,270 --> 00:17:27,039
dropped down

533
00:17:31,669 --> 00:17:29,280
towards long beach and then reports

534
00:17:34,710 --> 00:17:31,679
state that it then disappeared

535
00:17:36,870 --> 00:17:34,720
well during this entire period of time

536
00:17:38,710 --> 00:17:36,880
any aircraft batteries were firing like

537
00:17:40,789 --> 00:17:38,720
mad they also had

538
00:17:42,630 --> 00:17:40,799
i believe 37 millimeter round and 50

539
00:17:44,950 --> 00:17:42,640
caliber rounds that were being fired

540
00:17:47,270 --> 00:17:44,960
in addition to these huge three inch

541
00:17:47,909 --> 00:17:47,280
artillery shells any aircraft artillery

542
00:17:49,750 --> 00:17:47,919
shells

543
00:17:51,029 --> 00:17:49,760
so it was mayhem there was shrapnel

544
00:17:53,590 --> 00:17:51,039
raining down all over

545
00:17:54,230 --> 00:17:53,600
the los angeles area hollywood and long

546
00:17:57,350 --> 00:17:54,240
beach

547
00:17:59,590 --> 00:17:57,360
uh even along the coastline we had you

548
00:18:02,549 --> 00:17:59,600
know multiple locations where

549
00:18:03,190 --> 00:18:02,559
we had shrapnel raining down and then

550
00:18:05,830 --> 00:18:03,200
silence

551
00:18:08,070 --> 00:18:05,840
the object disappeared according to the

552
00:18:10,630 --> 00:18:08,080
cbs radio broadcast in addition to

553
00:18:13,750 --> 00:18:10,640
government documents and other sources

554
00:18:14,390 --> 00:18:13,760
the object or a similar object then came

555
00:18:16,470 --> 00:18:14,400
back

556
00:18:18,470 --> 00:18:16,480
and from all the information i've been

557
00:18:21,430 --> 00:18:18,480
able to gather essentially reversed

558
00:18:23,909 --> 00:18:21,440
direction reversed and came back

559
00:18:26,310 --> 00:18:23,919
opposite the direction it had come from

560
00:18:27,830 --> 00:18:26,320
moved inland went north and then went

561
00:18:29,830 --> 00:18:27,840
out over santa monica and then

562
00:18:33,029 --> 00:18:29,840
disappeared off the coast

563
00:18:35,190 --> 00:18:33,039
and so we're left with uh this report of

564
00:18:36,310 --> 00:18:35,200
an unidentified object we can't say it's

565
00:18:37,669 --> 00:18:36,320
extraterrestrial

566
00:18:39,350 --> 00:18:37,679
for the skeptics out there i'm not

567
00:18:42,150 --> 00:18:39,360
saying it's extraterrestrial

568
00:18:43,830 --> 00:18:42,160
but it is a genuine ufo and the thing i

569
00:18:45,110 --> 00:18:43,840
love about the case ryan and i'm sure

570
00:18:47,350 --> 00:18:45,120
you'll agree with this

571
00:18:48,870 --> 00:18:47,360
is i love the case because it was during

572
00:18:50,470 --> 00:18:48,880
a period of naivety

573
00:18:53,909 --> 00:18:50,480
in other words it was going to be

574
00:18:56,230 --> 00:18:53,919
another five years right before 1947

575
00:18:57,750 --> 00:18:56,240
is upon our doorstep before kenneth

576
00:18:59,350 --> 00:18:57,760
arnold had his siding before we were

577
00:19:00,310 --> 00:18:59,360
even thinking quote unquote flying

578
00:19:01,990 --> 00:19:00,320
saucers

579
00:19:03,669 --> 00:19:02,000
and then of course roswell then happened

580
00:19:06,070 --> 00:19:03,679
shortly thereafter

581
00:19:07,909 --> 00:19:06,080
so i like to say you know contrary to

582
00:19:09,510 --> 00:19:07,919
what skeptics will say well people read

583
00:19:10,870 --> 00:19:09,520
about ufo reports then they go out and

584
00:19:13,110 --> 00:19:10,880
they see a light in the sky and then

585
00:19:15,590 --> 00:19:13,120
they believe they've seen a ufo

586
00:19:17,350 --> 00:19:15,600
well we didn't have the term ufo until

587
00:19:19,830 --> 00:19:17,360
the 50s and we certainly didn't have the

588
00:19:22,070 --> 00:19:19,840
term flying saucer in 1942

589
00:19:23,669 --> 00:19:22,080
so it was an interesting period in time

590
00:19:24,950 --> 00:19:23,679
and i might add

591
00:19:26,549 --> 00:19:24,960
i was just talking to a fellow

592
00:19:27,190 --> 00:19:26,559
researcher the other the other day about

593
00:19:31,270 --> 00:19:27,200
this

594
00:19:34,710 --> 00:19:31,280
sightings in during world war ii

595
00:19:36,789 --> 00:19:34,720
so this was a very early case involving

596
00:19:38,710 --> 00:19:36,799
tens of thousands of eyewitnesses

597
00:19:41,750 --> 00:19:38,720
involving radar confirmation

598
00:19:43,110 --> 00:19:41,760
and involving a famous photograph and

599
00:19:44,870 --> 00:19:43,120
then in my research

600
00:19:46,630 --> 00:19:44,880
and this is an interesting little side

601
00:19:47,350 --> 00:19:46,640
note i like to collect elements of

602
00:19:48,950 --> 00:19:47,360
history

603
00:19:50,230 --> 00:19:48,960
because i'm just i'm sentimental you

604
00:19:51,590 --> 00:19:50,240
can't be a historian i don't think

605
00:19:53,029 --> 00:19:51,600
without being sentimental

606
00:19:54,950 --> 00:19:53,039
and you love to have those original

607
00:19:55,909 --> 00:19:54,960
elements those original newspapers and i

608
00:19:59,270 --> 00:19:55,919
have about

609
00:19:59,750 --> 00:19:59,280
12 to 14 original full page newspapers

610
00:20:03,350 --> 00:19:59,760
from

611
00:20:04,149 --> 00:20:03,360
february 25th and 26 1942 chronicling

612
00:20:05,669 --> 00:20:04,159
this

613
00:20:08,470 --> 00:20:05,679
one of the items that i was able to come

614
00:20:10,710 --> 00:20:08,480
across and acquire was an original

615
00:20:13,029 --> 00:20:10,720
photograph original copy of the famous

616
00:20:15,430 --> 00:20:13,039
photograph that everyone's familiar with

617
00:20:16,710 --> 00:20:15,440
it's uh stamped on the back property of

618
00:20:19,909 --> 00:20:16,720
associated press

619
00:20:21,190 --> 00:20:19,919
in addition it has glued onto the back

620
00:20:24,070 --> 00:20:21,200
the original one of the original

621
00:20:26,710 --> 00:20:24,080
teletypes from february 25th 1942

622
00:20:28,950 --> 00:20:26,720
chronicling the early event you know

623
00:20:30,870 --> 00:20:28,960
before additional information was known

624
00:20:32,950 --> 00:20:30,880
and it talks about a slow-moving target

625
00:20:35,430 --> 00:20:32,960
that the army was firing upon

626
00:20:36,470 --> 00:20:35,440
and so it's really nice to have that

627
00:20:38,549 --> 00:20:36,480
original piece

628
00:20:40,470 --> 00:20:38,559
in addition to the other elements that i

629
00:20:42,470 --> 00:20:40,480
have but what's interesting is

630
00:20:43,510 --> 00:20:42,480
the fact that for decades we knew about

631
00:20:45,510 --> 00:20:43,520
this case

632
00:20:47,430 --> 00:20:45,520
and really not until maybe the last 30

633
00:20:49,830 --> 00:20:47,440
40 years that the ufo community really

634
00:20:50,630 --> 00:20:49,840
took notice of it as a quote unquote ufo

635
00:20:52,549 --> 00:20:50,640
case

636
00:20:53,990 --> 00:20:52,559
but what was interesting is you know a

637
00:20:55,669 --> 00:20:54,000
lot of people ask me well how did you

638
00:20:57,190 --> 00:20:55,679
acquire that photograph

639
00:20:58,230 --> 00:20:57,200
and i was talking to barry greenwood

640
00:20:59,750 --> 00:20:58,240
just the other day and i said we could

641
00:21:01,830 --> 00:20:59,760
do a whole lecture on just

642
00:21:03,830 --> 00:21:01,840
how we've acquired some of these items

643
00:21:05,750 --> 00:21:03,840
and the way in which we acquired them

644
00:21:08,149 --> 00:21:05,760
there's some fascinating stories

645
00:21:10,549 --> 00:21:08,159
but real quick um i found this

646
00:21:13,029 --> 00:21:10,559
photograph believe it or not on ebay

647
00:21:13,909 --> 00:21:13,039
and i'm here to tell you i have numerous

648
00:21:15,990 --> 00:21:13,919
other

649
00:21:17,990 --> 00:21:16,000
newswire photos from the time period and

650
00:21:19,990 --> 00:21:18,000
even later in the 50s and 60s so i know

651
00:21:21,590 --> 00:21:20,000
what the earmarks look like i know what

652
00:21:23,110 --> 00:21:21,600
to look for as far as the property

653
00:21:25,669 --> 00:21:23,120
stamps etc

654
00:21:27,510 --> 00:21:25,679
and so i i was in touch with a gentleman

655
00:21:29,350 --> 00:21:27,520
who lived in the los angeles area

656
00:21:30,789 --> 00:21:29,360
he was the one that had sold it on ebay

657
00:21:33,669 --> 00:21:30,799
and luckily i was able to

658
00:21:35,190 --> 00:21:33,679
win the bid and and obtain it when i

659
00:21:37,110 --> 00:21:35,200
reached out to him to tell him i'm

660
00:21:37,590 --> 00:21:37,120
actually conducting extensive research

661
00:21:40,230 --> 00:21:37,600
on this

662
00:21:43,190 --> 00:21:40,240
event emails led to phone calls which

663
00:21:46,310 --> 00:21:43,200
then led to video chats via skype

664
00:21:47,909 --> 00:21:46,320
and the story is fascinating for years

665
00:21:49,190 --> 00:21:47,919
we've known about the photograph but

666
00:21:50,630 --> 00:21:49,200
researchers have never asked the

667
00:21:53,190 --> 00:21:50,640
fundamental question

668
00:21:54,390 --> 00:21:53,200
well who took the famous photo who was

669
00:21:55,990 --> 00:21:54,400
the photographer

670
00:21:57,830 --> 00:21:56,000
it's one of those those questions that

671
00:21:58,390 --> 00:21:57,840
really has just gone unanswered if not

672
00:22:00,390 --> 00:21:58,400
unasked

673
00:22:01,669 --> 00:22:00,400
over the decades and so it was

674
00:22:04,149 --> 00:22:01,679
interesting because

675
00:22:05,669 --> 00:22:04,159
in speaking with this man he described

676
00:22:08,870 --> 00:22:05,679
the fact that he and his wife

677
00:22:09,830 --> 00:22:08,880
on weekends uh like to do yard sales

678
00:22:12,789 --> 00:22:09,840
estate sales

679
00:22:14,950 --> 00:22:12,799
in the greater los angeles area and he

680
00:22:16,630 --> 00:22:14,960
went on one particular saturday

681
00:22:18,149 --> 00:22:16,640
not very far from his home i believe he

682
00:22:19,590 --> 00:22:18,159
said the the

683
00:22:21,350 --> 00:22:19,600
property that he went to was only about

684
00:22:23,029 --> 00:22:21,360
three miles from where they lived

685
00:22:24,390 --> 00:22:23,039
and i believe it was woodland hills if

686
00:22:26,710 --> 00:22:24,400
i'm not mistaken

687
00:22:28,070 --> 00:22:26,720
and he went there and his wife was

688
00:22:29,750 --> 00:22:28,080
looking at items and

689
00:22:31,669 --> 00:22:29,760
his attention was drawn to a folding

690
00:22:34,390 --> 00:22:31,679
table sitting in the front yard

691
00:22:35,830 --> 00:22:34,400
there were two long file boxes sitting

692
00:22:37,750 --> 00:22:35,840
underneath this table

693
00:22:39,909 --> 00:22:37,760
well curiosity got the best of him he

694
00:22:40,789 --> 00:22:39,919
crouched down and notice that there were

695
00:22:44,310 --> 00:22:40,799
multiple

696
00:22:45,430 --> 00:22:44,320
files old file folders within each file

697
00:22:48,710 --> 00:22:45,440
folder

698
00:22:51,669 --> 00:22:48,720
was a black and white beautiful

699
00:22:52,870 --> 00:22:51,679
black and white news photo photos of

700
00:22:56,470 --> 00:22:52,880
bing crosby

701
00:22:57,830 --> 00:22:56,480
judy garland uh photos from the war

702
00:23:00,310 --> 00:22:57,840
anything and everything that you can

703
00:23:02,789 --> 00:23:00,320
imagine circa 1942

704
00:23:04,630 --> 00:23:02,799
and so one of the photos was also the

705
00:23:06,710 --> 00:23:04,640
battle of la photo

706
00:23:07,669 --> 00:23:06,720
the gentleman asked the young lady that

707
00:23:10,310 --> 00:23:07,679
was apparently

708
00:23:11,750 --> 00:23:10,320
you know running this estate sale ma'am

709
00:23:14,310 --> 00:23:11,760
if you don't mind me asking where did

710
00:23:17,510 --> 00:23:14,320
you acquire all these really cool photos

711
00:23:19,110 --> 00:23:17,520
and very naively she said oh those

712
00:23:20,710 --> 00:23:19,120
belong to my grandfather

713
00:23:22,390 --> 00:23:20,720
he was a photographer with the

714
00:23:25,190 --> 00:23:22,400
associated press

715
00:23:26,470 --> 00:23:25,200
so essentially this was his collection

716
00:23:29,350 --> 00:23:26,480
of photos that he took

717
00:23:31,190 --> 00:23:29,360
while he was a press photographer he

718
00:23:33,510 --> 00:23:31,200
took the famous photo

719
00:23:35,510 --> 00:23:33,520
well as best as we can establish as i

720
00:23:36,230 --> 00:23:35,520
stated my lectures i can't say 100

721
00:23:39,590 --> 00:23:36,240
percent

722
00:23:41,269 --> 00:23:39,600
certainty but most photographers don't

723
00:23:43,750 --> 00:23:41,279
collect photos from other photographers

724
00:23:46,789 --> 00:23:43,760
they have their own portfolio

725
00:23:48,070 --> 00:23:46,799
and so it was interesting uh i did get

726
00:23:49,909 --> 00:23:48,080
in touch with the family

727
00:23:52,149 --> 00:23:49,919
through the help of this individual

728
00:23:53,750 --> 00:23:52,159
because i i'm here in new mexico and you

729
00:23:55,269 --> 00:23:53,760
know i'm not out in california

730
00:23:57,350 --> 00:23:55,279
and i was able to get in touch with the

731
00:24:00,070 --> 00:23:57,360
family they were kind enough to

732
00:24:00,950 --> 00:24:00,080
send me photographs of uh pictures of

733
00:24:03,990 --> 00:24:00,960
the gentleman

734
00:24:06,789 --> 00:24:04,000
name is

735
00:24:08,070 --> 00:24:06,799
ira goldner and he was a photographer

736
00:24:11,430 --> 00:24:08,080
for decades

737
00:24:13,830 --> 00:24:11,440
uh he was born in the late 1800s was a

738
00:24:15,190 --> 00:24:13,840
a fairly seasoned and older photographer

739
00:24:16,789 --> 00:24:15,200
at the time

740
00:24:18,549 --> 00:24:16,799
and they were able to share pictures

741
00:24:21,830 --> 00:24:18,559
with me which i still have

742
00:24:23,909 --> 00:24:21,840
of photographs of ira with his camera

743
00:24:26,310 --> 00:24:23,919
in the los angeles area taking pictures

744
00:24:29,110 --> 00:24:26,320
of sports figures movie producers

745
00:24:30,710 --> 00:24:29,120
and uh in addition to that awards that

746
00:24:32,710 --> 00:24:30,720
he had received

747
00:24:33,750 --> 00:24:32,720
press badges that allowed him to get

748
00:24:37,269 --> 00:24:33,760
into certain events

749
00:24:38,070 --> 00:24:37,279
dated 1941 45 around that whole time

750
00:24:40,549 --> 00:24:38,080
period

751
00:24:41,110 --> 00:24:40,559
so ample evidence to suggest that you

752
00:24:43,510 --> 00:24:41,120
know

753
00:24:44,950 --> 00:24:43,520
this this is probably the guy in

754
00:24:46,950 --> 00:24:44,960
addition to that i found

755
00:24:48,549 --> 00:24:46,960
uh stamps on the back of some other

756
00:24:51,269 --> 00:24:48,559
photographs that i acquired

757
00:24:52,630 --> 00:24:51,279
from the same collection uh that showed

758
00:24:55,430 --> 00:24:52,640
that he had a photo

759
00:24:56,789 --> 00:24:55,440
studio in hollywood california so it

760
00:24:57,909 --> 00:24:56,799
puts him right into that area of the

761
00:24:59,510 --> 00:24:57,919
battle of la

762
00:25:01,750 --> 00:24:59,520
beyond that ryan and i think you'll

763
00:25:02,789 --> 00:25:01,760
appreciate this my early research trying

764
00:25:05,830 --> 00:25:02,799
to investigate

765
00:25:06,230 --> 00:25:05,840
background on him i did a google search

766
00:25:07,990 --> 00:25:06,240
and

767
00:25:09,510 --> 00:25:08,000
people can probably still pull these

768
00:25:12,950 --> 00:25:09,520
things up i only found

769
00:25:15,990 --> 00:25:12,960
two photos that are tied to ira goldner

770
00:25:18,149 --> 00:25:16,000
and one was extremely interesting

771
00:25:20,950 --> 00:25:18,159
because it was taken approximately two

772
00:25:24,630 --> 00:25:20,960
weeks before the battle of la incident

773
00:25:26,710 --> 00:25:24,640
and the photograph in question shows

774
00:25:28,470 --> 00:25:26,720
los angeles police officers rounding up

775
00:25:29,590 --> 00:25:28,480
japanese citizens in the wake of world

776
00:25:32,630 --> 00:25:29,600
war ii or

777
00:25:34,870 --> 00:25:32,640
pearl harbor i should say and so

778
00:25:35,830 --> 00:25:34,880
it was two weeks uh prior to the battle

779
00:25:38,470 --> 00:25:35,840
of la

780
00:25:39,990 --> 00:25:38,480
and it credits him and it was taken in

781
00:25:42,390 --> 00:25:40,000
los angeles so

782
00:25:44,549 --> 00:25:42,400
it puts us at the right time the right

783
00:25:45,669 --> 00:25:44,559
month it puts us in los angeles and

784
00:25:47,350 --> 00:25:45,679
proves that he was

785
00:25:49,029 --> 00:25:47,360
in there at least two weeks prior to the

786
00:25:51,669 --> 00:25:49,039
battle of la incident

787
00:25:52,470 --> 00:25:51,679
so looking at something that's 70 years

788
00:25:54,070 --> 00:25:52,480
plus old

789
00:25:55,669 --> 00:25:54,080
it's it's about the best evidence that

790
00:25:57,350 --> 00:25:55,679
we can gather now to

791
00:25:59,350 --> 00:25:57,360
you know really put these pieces

792
00:26:01,510 --> 00:25:59,360
together and have a better understanding

793
00:26:03,750 --> 00:26:01,520
beyond that i want to reach out or speak

794
00:26:04,789 --> 00:26:03,760
out to a mutual friend of ours mr ben

795
00:26:07,909 --> 00:26:04,799
hansen

796
00:26:08,549 --> 00:26:07,919
ben did a an episode of the smithsonian

797
00:26:11,350 --> 00:26:08,559
channel's

798
00:26:11,830 --> 00:26:11,360
ufos declassified and it was interesting

799
00:26:13,269 --> 00:26:11,840
it's like

800
00:26:15,990 --> 00:26:13,279
the timing of this couldn't work out any

801
00:26:17,510 --> 00:26:16,000
better if it was an x-files episode

802
00:26:19,510 --> 00:26:17,520
they were coming to meet with me in

803
00:26:20,549 --> 00:26:19,520
albuquerque to do an episode on

804
00:26:23,190 --> 00:26:20,559
triangles

805
00:26:24,950 --> 00:26:23,200
the day before literally the day before

806
00:26:27,669 --> 00:26:24,960
they were filming with ben hansen to do

807
00:26:29,190 --> 00:26:27,679
an episode on the battle of la

808
00:26:31,029 --> 00:26:29,200
now in the episode and many of your

809
00:26:32,870 --> 00:26:31,039
audience may have seen this already

810
00:26:34,310 --> 00:26:32,880
um and i believe it's still available

811
00:26:36,950 --> 00:26:34,320
online they

812
00:26:37,590 --> 00:26:36,960
went to the la times archives and talked

813
00:26:39,909 --> 00:26:37,600
to simon

814
00:26:41,510 --> 00:26:39,919
elliott who is their their photographic

815
00:26:43,510 --> 00:26:41,520
archival expert

816
00:26:46,070 --> 00:26:43,520
and he has access to their vast

817
00:26:47,269 --> 00:26:46,080
photographic archive

818
00:26:48,950 --> 00:26:47,279
it was interesting because when the

819
00:26:50,789 --> 00:26:48,960
producers showed up at my doorstep the

820
00:26:52,149 --> 00:26:50,799
next day they walk into my research room

821
00:26:52,630 --> 00:26:52,159
which was not this room it was a

822
00:26:55,990 --> 00:26:52,640
different

823
00:26:59,350 --> 00:26:56,000
time and i had the photograph

824
00:27:00,950 --> 00:26:59,360
prominently displayed and he said

825
00:27:02,710 --> 00:27:00,960
wait a minute he goes i'm looking at

826
00:27:04,310 --> 00:27:02,720
what you have photographed here he goes

827
00:27:06,310 --> 00:27:04,320
you're telling me this is an original

828
00:27:08,149 --> 00:27:06,320
copy i said yeah and i pulled it out and

829
00:27:10,149 --> 00:27:08,159
actually showed him the date stamp and

830
00:27:12,710 --> 00:27:10,159
the news uh teletype

831
00:27:13,269 --> 00:27:12,720
and he goes but this says associated

832
00:27:15,269 --> 00:27:13,279
press

833
00:27:17,510 --> 00:27:15,279
and i said yeah i said based on all my

834
00:27:19,110 --> 00:27:17,520
research it was taken by an associated

835
00:27:20,710 --> 00:27:19,120
press photographer

836
00:27:22,630 --> 00:27:20,720
and you could see wheels turning in his

837
00:27:24,389 --> 00:27:22,640
head he looked at the camera man he goes

838
00:27:25,909 --> 00:27:24,399
okay i know we're here to talk to dave

839
00:27:27,510 --> 00:27:25,919
about triangles but i've got to talk to

840
00:27:29,830 --> 00:27:27,520
him about this he goes dave

841
00:27:31,669 --> 00:27:29,840
we literally were at the la times

842
00:27:32,710 --> 00:27:31,679
yesterday with ben hansen and i told him

843
00:27:35,110 --> 00:27:32,720
i knew ben

844
00:27:37,669 --> 00:27:35,120
and they said i want to show you the raw

845
00:27:40,230 --> 00:27:37,679
footage that we just shot yesterday

846
00:27:40,950 --> 00:27:40,240
and so they showed me the the clip which

847
00:27:43,830 --> 00:27:40,960
ultimately

848
00:27:45,350 --> 00:27:43,840
it was in the final edit where they're

849
00:27:48,389 --> 00:27:45,360
looking at the original negative

850
00:27:49,590 --> 00:27:48,399
in the la times and they told me look

851
00:27:51,110 --> 00:27:49,600
what you're about to see was not

852
00:27:53,590 --> 00:27:51,120
scripted this literally happened

853
00:27:55,430 --> 00:27:53,600
organically while we were filming

854
00:27:57,350 --> 00:27:55,440
simon elliot's looking at the negative

855
00:27:59,510 --> 00:27:57,360
with them with ben and with

856
00:28:00,870 --> 00:27:59,520
the rest of the camera team there and he

857
00:28:02,149 --> 00:28:00,880
goes now this is an interesting

858
00:28:04,870 --> 00:28:02,159
curiosity i've never

859
00:28:05,909 --> 00:28:04,880
noticed this before he said the notch

860
00:28:09,190 --> 00:28:05,919
code

861
00:28:12,789 --> 00:28:09,200
is not that of what is typically

862
00:28:16,310 --> 00:28:12,799
shown with other l.a time photographs

863
00:28:17,990 --> 00:28:16,320
and he expounded on it that la times

864
00:28:20,549 --> 00:28:18,000
photographers all use the film

865
00:28:21,029 --> 00:28:20,559
the same type of film stock that film

866
00:28:23,510 --> 00:28:21,039
stock

867
00:28:24,470 --> 00:28:23,520
shows two little triangular notches in

868
00:28:25,909 --> 00:28:24,480
the corner

869
00:28:28,230 --> 00:28:25,919
i believe the upper right hand corner of

870
00:28:31,669 --> 00:28:28,240
the negative this one showed

871
00:28:33,110 --> 00:28:31,679
a half of an oval not two triangular

872
00:28:35,029 --> 00:28:33,120
notches which is indicative of a

873
00:28:36,950 --> 00:28:35,039
different type of film stock

874
00:28:38,549 --> 00:28:36,960
and so and there's a catalog you can

875
00:28:40,630 --> 00:28:38,559
actually look this up

876
00:28:42,389 --> 00:28:40,640
and on camera and i've actually used

877
00:28:44,149 --> 00:28:42,399
this for my lectures just to demonstrate

878
00:28:46,630 --> 00:28:44,159
look this isn't me this is the expert

879
00:28:47,990 --> 00:28:46,640
saying this they're saying well what are

880
00:28:49,190 --> 00:28:48,000
you telling us that it's a different

881
00:28:52,070 --> 00:28:49,200
notch code he goes

882
00:28:54,789 --> 00:28:52,080
well it suggests that this was not taken

883
00:28:56,070 --> 00:28:54,799
by an l.a times photographer

884
00:28:57,590 --> 00:28:56,080
and then the next day they literally

885
00:28:58,950 --> 00:28:57,600
show up at my doorstep and i'm telling

886
00:29:01,190 --> 00:28:58,960
him it was an associated press

887
00:29:03,990 --> 00:29:01,200
photographer by the name of ira goldner

888
00:29:06,149 --> 00:29:04,000
so the pieces just meshed perfectly you

889
00:29:07,830 --> 00:29:06,159
know the narrative really came together

890
00:29:09,909 --> 00:29:07,840
and it's that's like the only time i've

891
00:29:11,510 --> 00:29:09,919
ever had something so seamlessly connect

892
00:29:13,430 --> 00:29:11,520
like that and it was just

893
00:29:14,950 --> 00:29:13,440
and as we were alluding to before the

894
00:29:18,389 --> 00:29:14,960
show sometimes it's just

895
00:29:20,870 --> 00:29:18,399
timing with some of these things

896
00:29:23,029 --> 00:29:20,880
the fact that all of that came together

897
00:29:25,110 --> 00:29:23,039
70 plus years later

898
00:29:26,710 --> 00:29:25,120
and it really kind of helps solidify

899
00:29:28,149 --> 00:29:26,720
providing some more insight and

900
00:29:31,029 --> 00:29:28,159
additional answers into

901
00:29:32,470 --> 00:29:31,039
who was the photographer yeah that's

902
00:29:34,389 --> 00:29:32,480
incredible i mean

903
00:29:36,470 --> 00:29:34,399
you can't make that story up and i mean

904
00:29:37,029 --> 00:29:36,480
you're right a lot of the things we come

905
00:29:39,190 --> 00:29:37,039
across

906
00:29:40,630 --> 00:29:39,200
it's it is all in the timing you look at

907
00:29:43,430 --> 00:29:40,640
something like uh

908
00:29:44,149 --> 00:29:43,440
uh stanton friedman just happened to be

909
00:29:47,350 --> 00:29:44,159
in a town

910
00:29:48,470 --> 00:29:47,360
at a radio station where uh jesse marcel

911
00:29:51,269 --> 00:29:48,480
was and they just

912
00:29:53,029 --> 00:29:51,279
happened to start chatting and that's

913
00:29:54,149 --> 00:29:53,039
why we all know about the roswell

914
00:29:55,990 --> 00:29:54,159
incident today

915
00:29:57,510 --> 00:29:56,000
because of that and these are the

916
00:29:59,669 --> 00:29:57,520
successes right how many

917
00:30:02,870 --> 00:29:59,679
missed opportunities we've had over the

918
00:30:05,350 --> 00:30:02,880
years with regard to ufos and ufo cases

919
00:30:07,430 --> 00:30:05,360
too many to count i'm sure man yeah i

920
00:30:09,669 --> 00:30:07,440
kick myself sometimes but um

921
00:30:11,350 --> 00:30:09,679
that's amazing thank you so much for

922
00:30:13,990 --> 00:30:11,360
sharing that with us because again

923
00:30:15,510 --> 00:30:14,000
it clarifies so much about that very

924
00:30:16,549 --> 00:30:15,520
mysterious case that a lot of people

925
00:30:19,029 --> 00:30:16,559
don't know about

926
00:30:19,990 --> 00:30:19,039
pre roswell pre kenneth arnold so and

927
00:30:22,230 --> 00:30:20,000
again we still

928
00:30:24,070 --> 00:30:22,240
haven't come here we still don't know

929
00:30:25,430 --> 00:30:24,080
what the object was i mean we have to be

930
00:30:27,350 --> 00:30:25,440
honest with ourselves

931
00:30:29,909 --> 00:30:27,360
but it's highly suspicious because what

932
00:30:31,669 --> 00:30:29,919
i try to do as i do with any ufo case as

933
00:30:33,269 --> 00:30:31,679
any good investigator does

934
00:30:34,549 --> 00:30:33,279
you go through process of elimination

935
00:30:35,669 --> 00:30:34,559
starting with the most practical

936
00:30:37,909 --> 00:30:35,679
explanations

937
00:30:39,110 --> 00:30:37,919
and you know just to recap you know that

938
00:30:42,789 --> 00:30:39,120
whole incident

939
00:30:44,389 --> 00:30:42,799
um the japanese navy stated that they

940
00:30:46,630 --> 00:30:44,399
had no military operations

941
00:30:49,110 --> 00:30:46,640
in that area at that time there was a

942
00:30:51,110 --> 00:30:49,120
submarine attack about 36 hours before

943
00:30:51,830 --> 00:30:51,120
that shot at some oil rigs near santa

944
00:30:54,149 --> 00:30:51,840
barbara

945
00:30:55,029 --> 00:30:54,159
but as soon as that that took place the

946
00:30:58,070 --> 00:30:55,039
japanese

947
00:31:01,750 --> 00:30:58,080
sub went back out to sea we have

948
00:31:03,830 --> 00:31:01,760
the japanese navy acknowledging that

949
00:31:05,190 --> 00:31:03,840
they didn't take credit for the attack

950
00:31:07,190 --> 00:31:05,200
whereas they did take credit

951
00:31:08,310 --> 00:31:07,200
credit for attacking this oil rig 36

952
00:31:10,630 --> 00:31:08,320
hours before

953
00:31:11,830 --> 00:31:10,640
um and then we also have one of the

954
00:31:13,909 --> 00:31:11,840
first officers

955
00:31:15,909 --> 00:31:13,919
in the 1970s that wrote a letter an

956
00:31:17,990 --> 00:31:15,919
affidavit stating that you know

957
00:31:19,430 --> 00:31:18,000
i was involved on the attack at the oil

958
00:31:21,110 --> 00:31:19,440
rigs but we had nothing to do with the

959
00:31:22,630 --> 00:31:21,120
battle of la incident there was no

960
00:31:26,389 --> 00:31:22,640
reference made to that

961
00:31:28,470 --> 00:31:26,399
um we also have uh the military

962
00:31:29,750 --> 00:31:28,480
documents that talk about all of these

963
00:31:31,909 --> 00:31:29,760
munitions that were

964
00:31:33,509 --> 00:31:31,919
dispensed that morning at this

965
00:31:35,509 --> 00:31:33,519
mysterious target

966
00:31:36,710 --> 00:31:35,519
and so you know there's ample

967
00:31:38,630 --> 00:31:36,720
documentation

968
00:31:40,070 --> 00:31:38,640
with regard to the case it's not as i

969
00:31:41,029 --> 00:31:40,080
like to say it's not a question of did

970
00:31:43,830 --> 00:31:41,039
this really happen

971
00:31:44,149 --> 00:31:43,840
there's no doubt this episode played out

972
00:31:45,990 --> 00:31:44,159
and

973
00:31:48,230 --> 00:31:46,000
even today there's still some witnesses

974
00:31:48,710 --> 00:31:48,240
that are still alive albeit in their 90s

975
00:31:50,549 --> 00:31:48,720
now

976
00:31:52,070 --> 00:31:50,559
but many witnesses over the years have

977
00:31:53,990 --> 00:31:52,080
come forward and talked about the fact

978
00:31:56,549 --> 00:31:54,000
that they did see something in fact

979
00:31:57,909 --> 00:31:56,559
eureka springs arkansas uh back in the

980
00:31:59,669 --> 00:31:57,919
early 2000s

981
00:32:01,750 --> 00:31:59,679
uh i i would always attend that i knew

982
00:32:03,669 --> 00:32:01,760
lou ferris very well in fact some of his

983
00:32:05,190 --> 00:32:03,679
archive and material is here now in this

984
00:32:07,269 --> 00:32:05,200
collection um

985
00:32:08,310 --> 00:32:07,279
i had done a display of historic

986
00:32:10,389 --> 00:32:08,320
newspapers

987
00:32:11,909 --> 00:32:10,399
some of those at the time i didn't have

988
00:32:14,310 --> 00:32:11,919
as many as i have today

989
00:32:15,750 --> 00:32:14,320
were the original newspapers chronicling

990
00:32:17,909 --> 00:32:15,760
the battle of la including the

991
00:32:19,110 --> 00:32:17,919
the famous ellie times with the famous

992
00:32:20,789 --> 00:32:19,120
photograph

993
00:32:22,230 --> 00:32:20,799
and i was talking to a gentleman who i

994
00:32:24,149 --> 00:32:22,240
had seen in previous com

995
00:32:25,350 --> 00:32:24,159
conferences there he was a big fan of my

996
00:32:27,350 --> 00:32:25,360
lectures and

997
00:32:28,549 --> 00:32:27,360
i i won't say his last name i believe

998
00:32:30,549 --> 00:32:28,559
he's deceased now just

999
00:32:32,630 --> 00:32:30,559
by virtue of his age but his first name

1000
00:32:33,990 --> 00:32:32,640
was mike and he comes up to me and he

1001
00:32:35,509 --> 00:32:34,000
goes hey dave he goes this is a really

1002
00:32:37,110 --> 00:32:35,519
neat display that you put together i

1003
00:32:38,789 --> 00:32:37,120
said well thanks as i like to kind of

1004
00:32:40,070 --> 00:32:38,799
share some of these historical original

1005
00:32:40,950 --> 00:32:40,080
documents with people like these

1006
00:32:42,870 --> 00:32:40,960
newspapers

1007
00:32:44,310 --> 00:32:42,880
he goes yeah he goes i saw that and he's

1008
00:32:46,950 --> 00:32:44,320
pointing to the la times

1009
00:32:48,149 --> 00:32:46,960
newspaper on the battle of la i said oh

1010
00:32:49,029 --> 00:32:48,159
you've seen it in documentaries you're

1011
00:32:52,549 --> 00:32:49,039
familiar with it goes

1012
00:32:54,389 --> 00:32:52,559
no he goes i grew up in california

1013
00:32:56,549 --> 00:32:54,399
my mother and i were awakened that

1014
00:32:57,190 --> 00:32:56,559
morning by the sound of anti-aircraft

1015
00:33:00,070 --> 00:32:57,200
burst and

1016
00:33:01,669 --> 00:33:00,080
ant and air raid sirens and we ran out

1017
00:33:02,630 --> 00:33:01,679
to the front yard and we didn't see

1018
00:33:04,310 --> 00:33:02,640
anything

1019
00:33:05,909 --> 00:33:04,320
so then we decided to run back through

1020
00:33:08,870 --> 00:33:05,919
the house to the backyard

1021
00:33:10,870 --> 00:33:08,880
and when we ran out just like you see in

1022
00:33:11,909 --> 00:33:10,880
the famous photo we saw searchlights

1023
00:33:13,909 --> 00:33:11,919
converge

1024
00:33:15,110 --> 00:33:13,919
and he goes and you know mike held a

1025
00:33:17,909 --> 00:33:15,120
very responsible

1026
00:33:19,750 --> 00:33:17,919
position for a defense contractor um he

1027
00:33:21,830 --> 00:33:19,760
was very level-headed he goes

1028
00:33:23,350 --> 00:33:21,840
i'm not going to tell you what we saw

1029
00:33:25,669 --> 00:33:23,360
all i'm going to tell you is

1030
00:33:27,029 --> 00:33:25,679
in the convergence of lights there was

1031
00:33:29,190 --> 00:33:27,039
something sitting there

1032
00:33:30,549 --> 00:33:29,200
that was reflecting light he goes so if

1033
00:33:32,470 --> 00:33:30,559
anybody tells you different

1034
00:33:33,909 --> 00:33:32,480
don't believe him he goes i was there i

1035
00:33:34,950 --> 00:33:33,919
believe he was about eight years old at

1036
00:33:36,789 --> 00:33:34,960
the time

1037
00:33:38,710 --> 00:33:36,799
so it was really interesting to have

1038
00:33:39,350 --> 00:33:38,720
contact with mike and to be able to talk

1039
00:33:41,350 --> 00:33:39,360
about that

1040
00:33:43,350 --> 00:33:41,360
and i had known him like i said years

1041
00:33:44,389 --> 00:33:43,360
prior we used to you know go to the same

1042
00:33:47,029 --> 00:33:44,399
conference and it

1043
00:33:48,549 --> 00:33:47,039
just never came up so it was really

1044
00:33:50,230 --> 00:33:48,559
interesting to later it's like why

1045
00:33:52,389 --> 00:33:50,240
didn't you tell me this before

1046
00:33:53,830 --> 00:33:52,399
uh but it's interesting it was really

1047
00:33:55,350 --> 00:33:53,840
interesting for him to share that

1048
00:33:57,110 --> 00:33:55,360
and then again other people have come

1049
00:33:59,430 --> 00:33:57,120
forward with their testimony so

1050
00:34:01,830 --> 00:33:59,440
again it's one of those cases but i use

1051
00:34:05,029 --> 00:34:01,840
that as an example though ryan because

1052
00:34:07,269 --> 00:34:05,039
despite the passage of literally decades

1053
00:34:09,349 --> 00:34:07,279
it just goes to show you can never

1054
00:34:11,190 --> 00:34:09,359
completely close one of these cases

1055
00:34:12,790 --> 00:34:11,200
because you never know where a piece of

1056
00:34:14,069 --> 00:34:12,800
evidence is going to surface

1057
00:34:15,909 --> 00:34:14,079
and what i thought was just a nice

1058
00:34:18,470 --> 00:34:15,919
little historical piece by having an

1059
00:34:20,470 --> 00:34:18,480
original copy from february 25th 1942

1060
00:34:22,470 --> 00:34:20,480
having the photograph it turned out to

1061
00:34:25,510 --> 00:34:22,480
be a crucial piece of evidence

1062
00:34:27,430 --> 00:34:25,520
that gave us insights into new ideas and

1063
00:34:30,389 --> 00:34:27,440
thoughts on that case

1064
00:34:31,669 --> 00:34:30,399
right that's so awesome and again like

1065
00:34:34,869 --> 00:34:31,679
having a

1066
00:34:36,310 --> 00:34:34,879
a uh firsthand witness say there was a

1067
00:34:39,669 --> 00:34:36,320
solid object there

1068
00:34:40,069 --> 00:34:39,679
that alone that is that alone says case

1069
00:34:42,389 --> 00:34:40,079
not

1070
00:34:44,550 --> 00:34:42,399
closed because a lot of the contention

1071
00:34:45,909 --> 00:34:44,560
was there was nothing there it was just

1072
00:34:47,990 --> 00:34:45,919
a reflection off of

1073
00:34:49,510 --> 00:34:48,000
clouds or it was this it was that and

1074
00:34:50,550 --> 00:34:49,520
now we have someone saying it was a

1075
00:34:52,629 --> 00:34:50,560
solid object

1076
00:34:53,669 --> 00:34:52,639
so wondering what that was we don't we

1077
00:34:55,669 --> 00:34:53,679
may never know

1078
00:34:57,670 --> 00:34:55,679
jittery warner's was one of the official

1079
00:35:00,630 --> 00:34:57,680
explanations yeah and so

1080
00:35:02,550 --> 00:35:00,640
yes you know to me uh as i've stated in

1081
00:35:03,670 --> 00:35:02,560
my lectures jittery war nerves can't be

1082
00:35:05,510 --> 00:35:03,680
photographed

1083
00:35:07,670 --> 00:35:05,520
jittery war nerves can't be tracked on

1084
00:35:09,589 --> 00:35:07,680
radar and so to your point

1085
00:35:11,430 --> 00:35:09,599
i think it's one of those cases that

1086
00:35:12,870 --> 00:35:11,440
we'll probably never have complete

1087
00:35:14,230 --> 00:35:12,880
resolution to

1088
00:35:16,230 --> 00:35:14,240
but it's one that i don't think we

1089
00:35:18,390 --> 00:35:16,240
should just relegate you know to

1090
00:35:19,910 --> 00:35:18,400
just you know an interesting curiosity

1091
00:35:21,990 --> 00:35:19,920
from world war ii i think

1092
00:35:23,430 --> 00:35:22,000
i think it's more than that and i i hope

1093
00:35:26,069 --> 00:35:23,440
maybe even later

1094
00:35:27,990 --> 00:35:26,079
uh myself or other researchers may gain

1095
00:35:29,589 --> 00:35:28,000
new insights or new information

1096
00:35:31,270 --> 00:35:29,599
the thing is we never know what's

1097
00:35:33,670 --> 00:35:31,280
sitting out there with regard to some of

1098
00:35:35,910 --> 00:35:33,680
these historic cases

1099
00:35:37,030 --> 00:35:35,920
yep i know what what hasn't been

1100
00:35:39,589 --> 00:35:37,040
uncovered yet

1101
00:35:40,710 --> 00:35:39,599
absolutely it's amazing well all right i

1102
00:35:44,150 --> 00:35:40,720
guess let's move

1103
00:35:46,710 --> 00:35:44,160
to uh what you're best known for and

1104
00:35:47,990 --> 00:35:46,720
that is triangular ufos an estimate of

1105
00:35:50,710 --> 00:35:48,000
the situation

1106
00:35:51,349 --> 00:35:50,720
um this book made a lot of waves when it

1107
00:35:53,589 --> 00:35:51,359
came out

1108
00:35:55,270 --> 00:35:53,599
i think researchers were waiting for

1109
00:35:58,870 --> 00:35:55,280
something like this to come along

1110
00:36:02,150 --> 00:35:58,880
because we knew how different

1111
00:36:03,910 --> 00:36:02,160
and unique that these cases were yet

1112
00:36:06,150 --> 00:36:03,920
nobody was taking the reins and then

1113
00:36:08,790 --> 00:36:06,160
boom you come out with this book with

1114
00:36:09,349 --> 00:36:08,800
hundreds upon hundreds of these cases so

1115
00:36:11,750 --> 00:36:09,359
um

1116
00:36:12,390 --> 00:36:11,760
i guess dave's sort of playing off of

1117
00:36:13,829 --> 00:36:12,400
that

1118
00:36:16,150 --> 00:36:13,839
what made you want to look into the

1119
00:36:17,589 --> 00:36:16,160
triangles these extremely

1120
00:36:20,310 --> 00:36:17,599
mysterious things that a lot of

1121
00:36:23,190 --> 00:36:20,320
researchers are afraid to even touch

1122
00:36:24,069 --> 00:36:23,200
well first uh you know there's multi

1123
00:36:26,069 --> 00:36:24,079
facets to that

1124
00:36:27,109 --> 00:36:26,079
that that question and the form as far

1125
00:36:30,470 --> 00:36:27,119
as an answer

1126
00:36:31,030 --> 00:36:30,480
um i came in as i mentioned in 1990

1127
00:36:32,950 --> 00:36:31,040
actively

1128
00:36:34,230 --> 00:36:32,960
investigating ufos and for anybody that

1129
00:36:36,630 --> 00:36:34,240
was around back then

1130
00:36:39,030 --> 00:36:36,640
one of the most prominent stories or

1131
00:36:39,990 --> 00:36:39,040
topics was the famous belgian wave of

1132
00:36:42,230 --> 00:36:40,000
ufo sightings

1133
00:36:43,670 --> 00:36:42,240
which involve these large triangular

1134
00:36:45,030 --> 00:36:43,680
platforms

1135
00:36:46,790 --> 00:36:45,040
i found that the reports were

1136
00:36:48,310 --> 00:36:46,800
interesting because we were not talking

1137
00:36:49,910 --> 00:36:48,320
little points of light in the sky that

1138
00:36:50,950 --> 00:36:49,920
could be a satellite or a meteor that

1139
00:36:54,150 --> 00:36:50,960
someone saw and

1140
00:36:57,109 --> 00:36:54,160
described as a ufo these were

1141
00:36:57,829 --> 00:36:57,119
very prominent uh sightings uh very

1142
00:36:59,990 --> 00:36:57,839
close

1143
00:37:02,230 --> 00:37:00,000
encounters if you will with these large

1144
00:37:04,069 --> 00:37:02,240
triangular silent platforms

1145
00:37:06,150 --> 00:37:04,079
and then coupled with the nature of the

1146
00:37:07,750 --> 00:37:06,160
reports i was also

1147
00:37:09,670 --> 00:37:07,760
my curiosity was peaked by the fact that

1148
00:37:12,310 --> 00:37:09,680
the belgian air force

1149
00:37:13,750 --> 00:37:12,320
was actively looking at it and more

1150
00:37:14,950 --> 00:37:13,760
importantly they weren't ashamed of it

1151
00:37:16,630 --> 00:37:14,960
they weren't hiding it

1152
00:37:18,710 --> 00:37:16,640
they were holding press conferences and

1153
00:37:20,710 --> 00:37:18,720
then uh in addition to that we had not

1154
00:37:21,750 --> 00:37:20,720
only visual sightings but radar visual

1155
00:37:24,470 --> 00:37:21,760
sightings um

1156
00:37:26,310 --> 00:37:24,480
in fact we had the f-16 that locked on

1157
00:37:27,109 --> 00:37:26,320
multiple times with its on-board radar

1158
00:37:29,750 --> 00:37:27,119
system

1159
00:37:31,190 --> 00:37:29,760
and you know there's been some argument

1160
00:37:33,510 --> 00:37:31,200
and controversy over

1161
00:37:34,630 --> 00:37:33,520
those radar lock-ons but i think what's

1162
00:37:35,990 --> 00:37:34,640
important is the fact that what

1163
00:37:38,310 --> 00:37:36,000
precipitated sending that

1164
00:37:40,550 --> 00:37:38,320
f-16 up was the fact that four separate

1165
00:37:43,030 --> 00:37:40,560
ground-based nato tracking stations

1166
00:37:44,790 --> 00:37:43,040
were all converged on this one target in

1167
00:37:47,109 --> 00:37:44,800
tracking this one target

1168
00:37:49,109 --> 00:37:47,119
and it was based on that confirmation so

1169
00:37:51,750 --> 00:37:49,119
you had ground-based radar as well as

1170
00:37:53,829 --> 00:37:51,760
air based radar that was tracking this

1171
00:37:56,069 --> 00:37:53,839
object in this particular case

1172
00:37:57,910 --> 00:37:56,079
but as i like to say my interest was

1173
00:37:58,710 --> 00:37:57,920
purely academic living in the united

1174
00:38:00,390 --> 00:37:58,720
states i wasn't

1175
00:38:02,390 --> 00:38:00,400
you know flying over to belgium to

1176
00:38:04,950 --> 00:38:02,400
investigate these reports

1177
00:38:06,470 --> 00:38:04,960
but 10 years later in southern illinois

1178
00:38:07,349 --> 00:38:06,480
where i lived at the time just across

1179
00:38:10,310 --> 00:38:07,359
the river from

1180
00:38:12,550 --> 00:38:10,320
st louis uh we had a very what is now

1181
00:38:13,670 --> 00:38:12,560
kind of a classic case uh at the time i

1182
00:38:16,710 --> 00:38:13,680
didn't think it would be

1183
00:38:18,150 --> 00:38:16,720
as popular as as it's become but the

1184
00:38:20,630 --> 00:38:18,160
famous southern illinois

1185
00:38:22,870 --> 00:38:20,640
uh triangular ufo report that we

1186
00:38:24,310 --> 00:38:22,880
received where we had initially four and

1187
00:38:26,230 --> 00:38:24,320
then later five

1188
00:38:27,910 --> 00:38:26,240
police officers that all came forward

1189
00:38:29,510 --> 00:38:27,920
from different municipalities

1190
00:38:31,910 --> 00:38:29,520
neighboring municipalities

1191
00:38:33,990 --> 00:38:31,920
that had observed this triangular object

1192
00:38:35,990 --> 00:38:34,000
and what was interesting about that is

1193
00:38:38,069 --> 00:38:36,000
my friend and colleague darrell barker

1194
00:38:39,510 --> 00:38:38,079
in saint louis was able to secure the

1195
00:38:42,630 --> 00:38:39,520
saint claire county dispatch

1196
00:38:43,349 --> 00:38:42,640
recordings and so not only did we have

1197
00:38:51,750 --> 00:38:43,359
the

1198
00:38:53,270 --> 00:38:51,760
also provided a key piece of information

1199
00:38:54,950 --> 00:38:53,280
in the sense that they were date stamped

1200
00:38:57,910 --> 00:38:54,960
and time stamped so

1201
00:38:59,190 --> 00:38:57,920
we knew when the officer saw the object

1202
00:39:01,109 --> 00:38:59,200
where he was standing

1203
00:39:03,589 --> 00:39:01,119
not just based on his testimony but we

1204
00:39:04,790 --> 00:39:03,599
have the the time stamp on the audio

1205
00:39:07,750 --> 00:39:04,800
recordings

1206
00:39:09,270 --> 00:39:07,760
and so that was an interesting case but

1207
00:39:10,550 --> 00:39:09,280
ryan what i was struck by

1208
00:39:13,270 --> 00:39:10,560
is as i was sitting in some of those

1209
00:39:14,310 --> 00:39:13,280
police uh precincts the the those

1210
00:39:16,230 --> 00:39:14,320
offices

1211
00:39:18,790 --> 00:39:16,240
and these police officers are describing

1212
00:39:22,230 --> 00:39:18,800
and then sketching what they observed

1213
00:39:24,069 --> 00:39:22,240
it was strikingly similar to what i knew

1214
00:39:26,710 --> 00:39:24,079
the gendarmes the police officers in

1215
00:39:28,790 --> 00:39:26,720
belgium had reported ten years prior

1216
00:39:30,069 --> 00:39:28,800
and so that i would in answer to your

1217
00:39:32,550 --> 00:39:30,079
question started

1218
00:39:33,829 --> 00:39:32,560
kind of the wheels turning in my head

1219
00:39:36,710 --> 00:39:33,839
you know i knew that other

1220
00:39:37,510 --> 00:39:36,720
triangle reports had occurred and

1221
00:39:39,190 --> 00:39:37,520
certainly

1222
00:39:41,990 --> 00:39:39,200
you know there were magazine articles

1223
00:39:43,910 --> 00:39:42,000
references online here and there

1224
00:39:45,270 --> 00:39:43,920
not compared to the prevalence we have

1225
00:39:47,349 --> 00:39:45,280
today but

1226
00:39:48,950 --> 00:39:47,359
i was struck by the parallels between

1227
00:39:51,030 --> 00:39:48,960
these two cases because

1228
00:39:52,069 --> 00:39:51,040
the belgian wave started november 29

1229
00:39:54,069 --> 00:39:52,079
1989

1230
00:39:55,750 --> 00:39:54,079
and very much similar to what occurred

1231
00:39:57,510 --> 00:39:55,760
in southern illinois

1232
00:39:59,270 --> 00:39:57,520
you had multiple police officers in

1233
00:40:02,230 --> 00:39:59,280
radio contact seeing

1234
00:40:03,190 --> 00:40:02,240
these triangular objects and so that's

1235
00:40:06,069 --> 00:40:03,200
what started

1236
00:40:07,430 --> 00:40:06,079
uh my passion for really trying to find

1237
00:40:09,829 --> 00:40:07,440
are there patterns here are

1238
00:40:11,190 --> 00:40:09,839
do the other cases describe the same

1239
00:40:13,829 --> 00:40:11,200
characteristics

1240
00:40:15,349 --> 00:40:13,839
and at the time i had amassed some

1241
00:40:16,950 --> 00:40:15,359
historical material nothing to the

1242
00:40:18,470 --> 00:40:16,960
degree that i have today

1243
00:40:20,309 --> 00:40:18,480
but i started pulling some of these

1244
00:40:23,190 --> 00:40:20,319
files some of these news clippings going

1245
00:40:25,430 --> 00:40:23,200
back to the 50s and the 60s 70s

1246
00:40:27,910 --> 00:40:25,440
and i was finding the same reports

1247
00:40:29,589 --> 00:40:27,920
similar characteristics being reported

1248
00:40:31,510 --> 00:40:29,599
not only domestically in the united

1249
00:40:34,390 --> 00:40:31,520
states but internationally

1250
00:40:35,829 --> 00:40:34,400
um so i started putting this together

1251
00:40:38,950 --> 00:40:35,839
and it initially started as

1252
00:40:40,790 --> 00:40:38,960
a lecture and i believe it was 2006

1253
00:40:42,470 --> 00:40:40,800
at the mufon symposium was really the

1254
00:40:43,750 --> 00:40:42,480
first big lecture where i had presented

1255
00:40:45,190 --> 00:40:43,760
some of this material

1256
00:40:47,349 --> 00:40:45,200
but as you can appreciate with each

1257
00:40:49,109 --> 00:40:47,359
successive week month year i continue to

1258
00:40:50,950 --> 00:40:49,119
gather additional information

1259
00:40:52,550 --> 00:40:50,960
i'd like to say i kind of honed the

1260
00:40:55,589 --> 00:40:52,560
lecture refined it

1261
00:40:59,510 --> 00:40:55,599
and had some really solid cases in it

1262
00:41:01,190 --> 00:40:59,520
in 2012 and it was in 2012 where i gave

1263
00:41:03,190 --> 00:41:01,200
the presentation and i had done

1264
00:41:04,870 --> 00:41:03,200
previous lectures but this one really

1265
00:41:06,950 --> 00:41:04,880
resonated with the audience

1266
00:41:08,230 --> 00:41:06,960
in fact it was so funny i had about four

1267
00:41:10,150 --> 00:41:08,240
or five people come up to me

1268
00:41:11,270 --> 00:41:10,160
after the lecture and they said dave

1269
00:41:13,750 --> 00:41:11,280
that was a great lecture

1270
00:41:14,870 --> 00:41:13,760
i want to buy a copy of your book well i

1271
00:41:16,630 --> 00:41:14,880
laughed because

1272
00:41:18,470 --> 00:41:16,640
i never made reference to the fact i had

1273
00:41:18,870 --> 00:41:18,480
a book i never said i had a book they

1274
00:41:22,069 --> 00:41:18,880
just

1275
00:41:24,390 --> 00:41:22,079
assumed i had a book and so that

1276
00:41:26,150 --> 00:41:24,400
in addition to uh my first meeting with

1277
00:41:28,470 --> 00:41:26,160
colonel john alexander

1278
00:41:29,910 --> 00:41:28,480
uh where john came across after my

1279
00:41:31,510 --> 00:41:29,920
lecture

1280
00:41:32,870 --> 00:41:31,520
weaved his way through the audience and

1281
00:41:34,150 --> 00:41:32,880
came up to me and put his hand out he

1282
00:41:35,349 --> 00:41:34,160
goes i just want to shake your hand he

1283
00:41:37,109 --> 00:41:35,359
goes that's one of the damn finest

1284
00:41:38,870 --> 00:41:37,119
lectures i've heard at one of these ufo

1285
00:41:41,349 --> 00:41:38,880
conferences in years

1286
00:41:43,349 --> 00:41:41,359
and i thought i knew john alexander just

1287
00:41:44,069 --> 00:41:43,359
by virtue of his reputation and preceded

1288
00:41:46,069 --> 00:41:44,079
him

1289
00:41:48,309 --> 00:41:46,079
and i thought well if john's interested

1290
00:41:50,630 --> 00:41:48,319
in this and all these other people are

1291
00:41:52,390 --> 00:41:50,640
asking for a book maybe i should

1292
00:41:53,510 --> 00:41:52,400
seriously entertain it and i'll tell you

1293
00:41:55,190 --> 00:41:53,520
i never ever thought i would write a

1294
00:41:57,670 --> 00:41:55,200
book in my entire life that that was

1295
00:41:59,990 --> 00:41:57,680
just not even a blip on my radar

1296
00:42:01,750 --> 00:42:00,000
but on the flight home it really just

1297
00:42:03,750 --> 00:42:01,760
solidified in my mind that you know what

1298
00:42:06,870 --> 00:42:03,760
i'm going to start putting pen to paper

1299
00:42:07,510 --> 00:42:06,880
and see what comes out of that and in so

1300
00:42:10,550 --> 00:42:07,520
doing

1301
00:42:12,150 --> 00:42:10,560
within a year i had the book written and

1302
00:42:13,750 --> 00:42:12,160
you know i like to state though

1303
00:42:15,990 --> 00:42:13,760
for years prior to that i had been

1304
00:42:17,510 --> 00:42:16,000
cataloging collating these cases so they

1305
00:42:19,030 --> 00:42:17,520
were already assembled they were in

1306
00:42:20,630 --> 00:42:19,040
chronological order

1307
00:42:22,390 --> 00:42:20,640
i had all that material which i was

1308
00:42:23,670 --> 00:42:22,400
familiar with it was really a year of

1309
00:42:25,589 --> 00:42:23,680
just massaging it

1310
00:42:27,990 --> 00:42:25,599
and really trying to drill down and find

1311
00:42:30,069 --> 00:42:28,000
the best cases that i could ryan and

1312
00:42:31,109 --> 00:42:30,079
if you go through the book the vast

1313
00:42:33,190 --> 00:42:31,119
majority although

1314
00:42:35,030 --> 00:42:33,200
with certain exceptions the majority of

1315
00:42:35,670 --> 00:42:35,040
those are typically multiple witness

1316
00:42:39,750 --> 00:42:35,680
cases

1317
00:42:41,349 --> 00:42:39,760
those are military reports which i put

1318
00:42:43,510 --> 00:42:41,359
much more stock in

1319
00:42:44,390 --> 00:42:43,520
and so i really just tried to put it

1320
00:42:47,109 --> 00:42:44,400
together

1321
00:42:48,470 --> 00:42:47,119
and i wrote it to your point because

1322
00:42:49,990 --> 00:42:48,480
there was no book out there on the

1323
00:42:51,670 --> 00:42:50,000
subject there were articles written a

1324
00:42:52,630 --> 00:42:51,680
lot of stuff being posted on the

1325
00:42:55,349 --> 00:42:52,640
internet

1326
00:42:55,750 --> 00:42:55,359
but my attitude was how come nobody's

1327
00:42:58,870 --> 00:42:55,760
like

1328
00:43:00,390 --> 00:42:58,880
really focused on this because what we

1329
00:43:00,790 --> 00:43:00,400
were seeing then and i think you would

1330
00:43:03,349 --> 00:43:00,800
even

1331
00:43:04,950 --> 00:43:03,359
agree with today we're continuing to see

1332
00:43:06,550 --> 00:43:04,960
this positive trend

1333
00:43:08,230 --> 00:43:06,560
more and more people are reporting these

1334
00:43:10,470 --> 00:43:08,240
triangles and i think

1335
00:43:12,390 --> 00:43:10,480
one of the things that really typifies

1336
00:43:13,270 --> 00:43:12,400
that is the story that's been

1337
00:43:14,870 --> 00:43:13,280
circulating

1338
00:43:16,870 --> 00:43:14,880
in which i've heard is legitimate

1339
00:43:19,109 --> 00:43:16,880
through my back channel sources

1340
00:43:20,470 --> 00:43:19,119
with regard to this purported photograph

1341
00:43:23,589 --> 00:43:20,480
that was taken last year

1342
00:43:26,710 --> 00:43:23,599
by a naval pilot and so

1343
00:43:28,230 --> 00:43:26,720
if this photo comes out i i think beyond

1344
00:43:29,190 --> 00:43:28,240
almost anybody out there will be

1345
00:43:32,390 --> 00:43:29,200
extremely

1346
00:43:34,710 --> 00:43:32,400
anxious to see that and i'm told

1347
00:43:36,390 --> 00:43:34,720
that certain people feel that that may

1348
00:43:37,589 --> 00:43:36,400
be released in the course of the next

1349
00:43:39,270 --> 00:43:37,599
year or so

1350
00:43:41,510 --> 00:43:39,280
and so i certainly hope it will be

1351
00:43:43,510 --> 00:43:41,520
because i get inundated with people

1352
00:43:44,870 --> 00:43:43,520
sending me photos and videos saying what

1353
00:43:47,190 --> 00:43:44,880
do you think of this

1354
00:43:48,550 --> 00:43:47,200
and you know not to be disrespectful i

1355
00:43:49,510 --> 00:43:48,560
appreciate people sending me their

1356
00:43:52,630 --> 00:43:49,520
information

1357
00:43:53,190 --> 00:43:52,640
but i'm humble i state every time to

1358
00:43:54,470 --> 00:43:53,200
them

1359
00:43:57,270 --> 00:43:54,480
thank you for sharing this it's

1360
00:43:58,710 --> 00:43:57,280
interesting i'm not a photo expert i'm

1361
00:44:00,630 --> 00:43:58,720
not a video expert

1362
00:44:02,230 --> 00:44:00,640
this is simply not within my area of

1363
00:44:03,510 --> 00:44:02,240
expertise and i would say the same if

1364
00:44:04,870 --> 00:44:03,520
someone sent me a chunk of metal and

1365
00:44:06,309 --> 00:44:04,880
said what do you think of this

1366
00:44:08,870 --> 00:44:06,319
i don't know i need to find a meddler

1367
00:44:11,109 --> 00:44:08,880
just to look at this and so

1368
00:44:11,910 --> 00:44:11,119
um i think this will be interesting

1369
00:44:14,550 --> 00:44:11,920
though because

1370
00:44:14,950 --> 00:44:14,560
if this navy photograph is released

1371
00:44:16,790 --> 00:44:14,960
through

1372
00:44:18,790 --> 00:44:16,800
sources similar to how we have the three

1373
00:44:20,470 --> 00:44:18,800
famous dod videos released

1374
00:44:22,630 --> 00:44:20,480
what's interesting is we will have an

1375
00:44:24,630 --> 00:44:22,640
established provenance

1376
00:44:26,630 --> 00:44:24,640
you know we have so many ufo videos

1377
00:44:27,589 --> 00:44:26,640
online many of those are orchestrated

1378
00:44:29,829 --> 00:44:27,599
and created by

1379
00:44:30,630 --> 00:44:29,839
groups and individuals that just love to

1380
00:44:33,670 --> 00:44:30,640
just

1381
00:44:35,030 --> 00:44:33,680
fake ufo videos we can't put much

1382
00:44:36,870 --> 00:44:35,040
evidentiary stock

1383
00:44:39,190 --> 00:44:36,880
in those you know they're not evidence

1384
00:44:40,309 --> 00:44:39,200
as such unless we can verify who took it

1385
00:44:43,190 --> 00:44:40,319
where they took it

1386
00:44:43,510 --> 00:44:43,200
and really investigate behind the scenes

1387
00:44:45,349 --> 00:44:43,520
and

1388
00:44:47,670 --> 00:44:45,359
get supportive evidence to support those

1389
00:44:49,270 --> 00:44:47,680
videos to me they're just entertainment

1390
00:44:50,309 --> 00:44:49,280
you know until you can do all of that

1391
00:44:53,349 --> 00:44:50,319
legwork

1392
00:44:54,630 --> 00:44:53,359
but this photograph if it is as good as

1393
00:44:57,510 --> 00:44:54,640
rumor has it

1394
00:44:59,270 --> 00:44:57,520
and if it comes through official sources

1395
00:45:00,470 --> 00:44:59,280
to the general public

1396
00:45:02,069 --> 00:45:00,480
that's one that i'm going to raise an

1397
00:45:03,030 --> 00:45:02,079
eyebrow and take a look at i can tell

1398
00:45:08,150 --> 00:45:03,040
you

1399
00:45:08,870 --> 00:45:08,160
answered our number one listener

1400
00:45:10,950 --> 00:45:08,880
question

1401
00:45:12,470 --> 00:45:10,960
have you seen the triangle photo

1402
00:45:14,630 --> 00:45:12,480
emerging from the water

1403
00:45:15,829 --> 00:45:14,640
and when are we gonna see it i did a

1404
00:45:17,910 --> 00:45:15,839
poll on twitter

1405
00:45:19,190 --> 00:45:17,920
recently and i asked the public you know

1406
00:45:19,670 --> 00:45:19,200
are we gonna see it what do you guys

1407
00:45:23,430 --> 00:45:19,680
think

1408
00:45:25,990 --> 00:45:23,440
about 51 said yes um maybe

1409
00:45:27,430 --> 00:45:26,000
i don't know 20 said no and then the

1410
00:45:30,230 --> 00:45:27,440
rest said um

1411
00:45:31,990 --> 00:45:30,240
it doesn't exist so i guess we'll we'll

1412
00:45:33,750 --> 00:45:32,000
just have to wait and see but um

1413
00:45:35,990 --> 00:45:33,760
you're still right you're you're so

1414
00:45:37,750 --> 00:45:36,000
right in terms of um

1415
00:45:39,270 --> 00:45:37,760
uh sourcing these things when it comes

1416
00:45:41,030 --> 00:45:39,280
to photos in video

1417
00:45:43,190 --> 00:45:41,040
something you would think would be the

1418
00:45:45,670 --> 00:45:43,200
best evidence we have for ufos

1419
00:45:47,990 --> 00:45:45,680
but i'm sure you can agree that uh

1420
00:45:50,870 --> 00:45:48,000
they're actually more of a distraction

1421
00:45:51,829 --> 00:45:50,880
because anyone can fake these things and

1422
00:45:54,630 --> 00:45:51,839
we can't find

1423
00:45:55,510 --> 00:45:54,640
problem absolutely and there's a couple

1424
00:45:56,870 --> 00:45:55,520
reasons

1425
00:45:58,550 --> 00:45:56,880
in my book i've had people say well you

1426
00:45:59,030 --> 00:45:58,560
didn't have any photographs of triangles

1427
00:46:00,230 --> 00:45:59,040
or

1428
00:46:02,790 --> 00:46:00,240
in your lectures you didn't show any

1429
00:46:04,470 --> 00:46:02,800
photos or videos i do that because again

1430
00:46:06,309 --> 00:46:04,480
i'm not a photo video expert

1431
00:46:08,470 --> 00:46:06,319
if i was then i would go through and i

1432
00:46:09,990 --> 00:46:08,480
would vet them as a professional and i

1433
00:46:12,790 --> 00:46:10,000
would pick out the ones that

1434
00:46:14,150 --> 00:46:12,800
really go through a rigorous review and

1435
00:46:15,670 --> 00:46:14,160
seem to be legitimate

1436
00:46:17,910 --> 00:46:15,680
but i don't have that ability or

1437
00:46:19,109 --> 00:46:17,920
expertise if there's photo video experts

1438
00:46:20,550 --> 00:46:19,119
out there that would love to

1439
00:46:22,790 --> 00:46:20,560
you know share their talents i would

1440
00:46:25,750 --> 00:46:22,800
love to you know rely on you for that

1441
00:46:27,109 --> 00:46:25,760
um but until that day comes i just don't

1442
00:46:29,190 --> 00:46:27,119
try to rely on that

1443
00:46:31,109 --> 00:46:29,200
and more importantly beyond the

1444
00:46:31,750 --> 00:46:31,119
photographs you know you can look at a

1445
00:46:34,870 --> 00:46:31,760
photo

1446
00:46:36,390 --> 00:46:34,880
a video i'm much more interested in kind

1447
00:46:38,069 --> 00:46:36,400
of the big picture if you will i always

1448
00:46:39,510 --> 00:46:38,079
consider myself a big picture kind of

1449
00:46:42,710 --> 00:46:39,520
guy and what i mean by that

1450
00:46:45,109 --> 00:46:42,720
is you can take any witness that's seen

1451
00:46:47,589 --> 00:46:45,119
a ufo triangular or otherwise

1452
00:46:49,430 --> 00:46:47,599
and you can say you know i've researched

1453
00:46:51,750 --> 00:46:49,440
this i've investigated it i

1454
00:46:53,349 --> 00:46:51,760
i've done the best i can do and at the

1455
00:46:53,990 --> 00:46:53,359
end of the day as a researcher you kind

1456
00:46:55,750 --> 00:46:54,000
of do a gut

1457
00:46:57,589 --> 00:46:55,760
check you know do i think this person's

1458
00:46:58,390 --> 00:46:57,599
legitimate do i feel they're telling the

1459
00:47:01,510 --> 00:46:58,400
truth

1460
00:47:04,710 --> 00:47:01,520
um you know is there credibility there

1461
00:47:07,829 --> 00:47:04,720
um but it's much more impactful

1462
00:47:11,190 --> 00:47:07,839
i believe if you're looking at hundreds

1463
00:47:14,950 --> 00:47:11,200
of disparate cases worldwide

1464
00:47:18,309 --> 00:47:14,960
varied sources civilian commercial

1465
00:47:21,510 --> 00:47:18,319
military witnesses spread out

1466
00:47:23,349 --> 00:47:21,520
all over the globe decades that are all

1467
00:47:25,670 --> 00:47:23,359
describing the same thing

1468
00:47:26,549 --> 00:47:25,680
and the early cases are particularly

1469
00:47:29,430 --> 00:47:26,559
interesting

1470
00:47:30,790 --> 00:47:29,440
today someone can google ufo and chances

1471
00:47:32,630 --> 00:47:30,800
are they're going to see an image or a

1472
00:47:34,390 --> 00:47:32,640
video of a triangular ufo

1473
00:47:35,990 --> 00:47:34,400
the ones that i'm really interested in

1474
00:47:36,630 --> 00:47:36,000
ryan and i'll share some of these with

1475
00:47:39,670 --> 00:47:36,640
you

1476
00:47:40,950 --> 00:47:39,680
after the show are the historic reports

1477
00:47:43,589 --> 00:47:40,960
that i found

1478
00:47:45,190 --> 00:47:43,599
where they're showing sketches of the

1479
00:47:46,069 --> 00:47:45,200
triangles that were getting reported

1480
00:47:47,829 --> 00:47:46,079
today

1481
00:47:49,270 --> 00:47:47,839
equilateral triangles with a point of

1482
00:47:51,270 --> 00:47:49,280
light at each side

1483
00:47:52,549 --> 00:47:51,280
triangular ufos where the witness says

1484
00:47:53,990 --> 00:47:52,559
what was interesting is

1485
00:47:55,670 --> 00:47:54,000
the triangle wasn't flying with the

1486
00:47:57,670 --> 00:47:55,680
point forward it was flying with the

1487
00:48:00,790 --> 00:47:57,680
flat side as the leading edge

1488
00:48:02,630 --> 00:48:00,800
and these accounts that we have today

1489
00:48:07,829 --> 00:48:02,640
the modern reports

1490
00:48:09,990 --> 00:48:07,839
match what i'm finding in 1957 1962-1964

1491
00:48:11,510 --> 00:48:10,000
and another thing for those people that

1492
00:48:12,710 --> 00:48:11,520
believe well all these triangles are

1493
00:48:15,030 --> 00:48:12,720
just military

1494
00:48:16,710 --> 00:48:15,040
well i don't operate with absolutes i

1495
00:48:18,790 --> 00:48:16,720
don't like using the term all

1496
00:48:20,470 --> 00:48:18,800
or none i think that's just a you know

1497
00:48:21,589 --> 00:48:20,480
you're arbitrarily painting with a very

1498
00:48:24,150 --> 00:48:21,599
broad brush

1499
00:48:25,990 --> 00:48:24,160
admittedly you know the world exists in

1500
00:48:28,790 --> 00:48:26,000
shades of gray it's not so simple

1501
00:48:29,750 --> 00:48:28,800
black and white um and i think ufos are

1502
00:48:31,990 --> 00:48:29,760
no different

1503
00:48:33,750 --> 00:48:32,000
um but what's interesting is the fact

1504
00:48:35,349 --> 00:48:33,760
that you know if you believe some of

1505
00:48:35,910 --> 00:48:35,359
these triangles are military and i can

1506
00:48:40,309 --> 00:48:35,920
see

1507
00:48:40,870 --> 00:48:40,319
triangular objects in the sky they might

1508
00:48:43,430 --> 00:48:40,880
be

1509
00:48:45,430 --> 00:48:43,440
military in origin but not ones

1510
00:48:46,790 --> 00:48:45,440
demonstrating these highly exotic flight

1511
00:48:49,750 --> 00:48:46,800
characteristics

1512
00:48:51,349 --> 00:48:49,760
um and what's interesting is if you

1513
00:48:52,950 --> 00:48:51,359
believe that if you believe well this is

1514
00:48:54,790 --> 00:48:52,960
just the next evolution in stealth

1515
00:48:55,910 --> 00:48:54,800
technology for example as many people

1516
00:48:58,430 --> 00:48:55,920
have argued

1517
00:49:00,390 --> 00:48:58,440
how do you explain the ones from 1964

1518
00:49:02,710 --> 00:49:00,400
1952

1519
00:49:03,829 --> 00:49:02,720
help me understand that logic you know

1520
00:49:05,190 --> 00:49:03,839
or you're saying that we had that

1521
00:49:06,470 --> 00:49:05,200
technology back then

1522
00:49:08,150 --> 00:49:06,480
and i know people think that you know

1523
00:49:09,349 --> 00:49:08,160
well the nazis had all this technology

1524
00:49:11,990 --> 00:49:09,359
and we back engineered it

1525
00:49:13,510 --> 00:49:12,000
and i don't buy that because to me the

1526
00:49:14,950 --> 00:49:13,520
evidence is just not there to support

1527
00:49:16,870 --> 00:49:14,960
that that belief

1528
00:49:19,349 --> 00:49:16,880
um there's many belief systems within

1529
00:49:21,349 --> 00:49:19,359
ufos but the evidence just doesn't

1530
00:49:22,630 --> 00:49:21,359
credible evidence doesn't support it let

1531
00:49:24,870 --> 00:49:22,640
me just say that

1532
00:49:26,549 --> 00:49:24,880
yeah yeah you're right and i think that

1533
00:49:28,230 --> 00:49:26,559
is one of the biggest arguments

1534
00:49:30,870 --> 00:49:28,240
that skeptics like to use for the

1535
00:49:31,750 --> 00:49:30,880
triangular ufos is it's early stealth

1536
00:49:34,150 --> 00:49:31,760
technology

1537
00:49:35,990 --> 00:49:34,160
and i mean i i've been working on a big

1538
00:49:36,630 --> 00:49:36,000
article about triangles and i came to

1539
00:49:38,710 --> 00:49:36,640
you

1540
00:49:40,549 --> 00:49:38,720
to prove that otherwise that these

1541
00:49:43,589 --> 00:49:40,559
things have been reported

1542
00:49:44,069 --> 00:49:43,599
not just in the 60s and 50s but i know

1543
00:49:47,750 --> 00:49:44,079
you've

1544
00:49:49,990 --> 00:49:47,760
that which is incredible

1545
00:49:52,470 --> 00:49:50,000
yeah some of the early journals yeah

1546
00:49:53,349 --> 00:49:52,480
from the late 1800s reference triangular

1547
00:49:55,430 --> 00:49:53,359
objects

1548
00:49:56,549 --> 00:49:55,440
i can see though the further you go back

1549
00:49:58,549 --> 00:49:56,559
in time

1550
00:50:00,069 --> 00:49:58,559
the the less detailed the reports are

1551
00:50:01,510 --> 00:50:00,079
and obviously the harder they are to

1552
00:50:04,150 --> 00:50:01,520
corroborate

1553
00:50:05,829 --> 00:50:04,160
you know more modern accounts even say

1554
00:50:07,109 --> 00:50:05,839
from the 70s perhaps

1555
00:50:09,190 --> 00:50:07,119
we might be able to correlate with

1556
00:50:10,870 --> 00:50:09,200
government documents or other sources

1557
00:50:12,549 --> 00:50:10,880
the further you go back in time it gets

1558
00:50:14,470 --> 00:50:12,559
more difficult but

1559
00:50:16,390 --> 00:50:14,480
you know i i felt that it would be

1560
00:50:17,990 --> 00:50:16,400
remiss not to include those in the

1561
00:50:20,549 --> 00:50:18,000
overall discussion that

1562
00:50:22,309 --> 00:50:20,559
there have been triangular things

1563
00:50:23,670 --> 00:50:22,319
reported in the sky going back to the

1564
00:50:25,910 --> 00:50:23,680
late 1800s

1565
00:50:27,270 --> 00:50:25,920
now if you want to you know ultimately

1566
00:50:28,790 --> 00:50:27,280
it's up to the reader

1567
00:50:31,109 --> 00:50:28,800
as they go through the book to determine

1568
00:50:32,230 --> 00:50:31,119
what they consider valid or not valid

1569
00:50:34,710 --> 00:50:32,240
if you want to discount the ones from

1570
00:50:35,990 --> 00:50:34,720
the 1800s fine you still have a huge

1571
00:50:38,870 --> 00:50:36,000
body of data

1572
00:50:40,230 --> 00:50:38,880
that speaks to the the mid uh 20th

1573
00:50:41,750 --> 00:50:40,240
century where these things were being

1574
00:50:43,109 --> 00:50:41,760
reported worldwide

1575
00:50:45,109 --> 00:50:43,119
and then with this most recent

1576
00:50:47,589 --> 00:50:45,119
acquisition uh i'm

1577
00:50:48,150 --> 00:50:47,599
literally finding dozens of highly

1578
00:50:50,549 --> 00:50:48,160
credible

1579
00:50:51,750 --> 00:50:50,559
detailed reports and what's interesting

1580
00:50:53,430 --> 00:50:51,760
ryan and i have to tell you as a

1581
00:50:55,349 --> 00:50:53,440
researcher and an author

1582
00:50:56,950 --> 00:50:55,359
it's so validating and that's the best

1583
00:50:58,710 --> 00:50:56,960
word i can use

1584
00:50:59,910 --> 00:50:58,720
the characteristics that i outline in

1585
00:51:01,510 --> 00:50:59,920
the book as far as common

1586
00:51:04,309 --> 00:51:01,520
characteristics

1587
00:51:05,190 --> 00:51:04,319
are i'm finding in these new old cases

1588
00:51:07,430 --> 00:51:05,200
i'm coming across

1589
00:51:08,549 --> 00:51:07,440
cases i didn't even know existed but

1590
00:51:11,109 --> 00:51:08,559
it's bolstering

1591
00:51:12,549 --> 00:51:11,119
what i wrote about when i wrote the book

1592
00:51:14,390 --> 00:51:12,559
in 2013.

1593
00:51:16,069 --> 00:51:14,400
ah that's got to be such a good feeling

1594
00:51:16,630 --> 00:51:16,079
you nee you know you're on the right

1595
00:51:20,069 --> 00:51:16,640
path

1596
00:51:22,950 --> 00:51:20,079
and um it's very yeah right

1597
00:51:24,390 --> 00:51:22,960
and the the pattern thing too i think is

1598
00:51:25,670 --> 00:51:24,400
most important i know that's something

1599
00:51:28,150 --> 00:51:25,680
that you focus on

1600
00:51:29,750 --> 00:51:28,160
a lot with the triangles um and that

1601
00:51:31,990 --> 00:51:29,760
even leads up to

1602
00:51:34,309 --> 00:51:32,000
your current work with uh christopher

1603
00:51:35,109 --> 00:51:34,319
mellon so we have to talk about this the

1604
00:51:38,069 --> 00:51:35,119
um

1605
00:51:40,150 --> 00:51:38,079
the deputy former deputy assistant

1606
00:51:42,069 --> 00:51:40,160
secretary of defense of intelligence

1607
00:51:43,510 --> 00:51:42,079
and also the former staff director of

1608
00:51:45,589 --> 00:51:43,520
the united states senate

1609
00:51:47,430 --> 00:51:45,599
select committee on intelligence god

1610
00:51:48,230 --> 00:51:47,440
that's a mouthful this dude's resume is

1611
00:51:51,190 --> 00:51:48,240
insane

1612
00:51:52,950 --> 00:51:51,200
but um that being said a lot of our

1613
00:51:54,790 --> 00:51:52,960
viewers are going to recognize you from

1614
00:51:57,430 --> 00:51:54,800
unidentified the history

1615
00:51:58,150 --> 00:51:57,440
television show and the specifically the

1616
00:52:00,950 --> 00:51:58,160
episode

1617
00:52:02,230 --> 00:52:00,960
about triangles so i got to ask how did

1618
00:52:04,390 --> 00:52:02,240
that come about

1619
00:52:05,910 --> 00:52:04,400
and um what were these amazing

1620
00:52:09,030 --> 00:52:05,920
correlations that you found

1621
00:52:11,030 --> 00:52:09,040
with christopher mellon the guy who has

1622
00:52:12,309 --> 00:52:11,040
knows a hell of a lot more than a lot of

1623
00:52:14,630 --> 00:52:12,319
us about what's going on

1624
00:52:18,069 --> 00:52:14,640
and we're shocked by some of the stuff

1625
00:52:20,150 --> 00:52:18,079
you brought forward yeah

1626
00:52:22,549 --> 00:52:20,160
start the story before unidentified was

1627
00:52:24,549 --> 00:52:22,559
even a glimmer in the producer's eye

1628
00:52:26,309 --> 00:52:24,559
about a year to a year and a half before

1629
00:52:27,910 --> 00:52:26,319
unidentified surfaced as

1630
00:52:30,069 --> 00:52:27,920
this new tv show and i think it was

1631
00:52:31,750 --> 00:52:30,079
groundbreaking uh with regard to how

1632
00:52:34,069 --> 00:52:31,760
they treated the subject and the very

1633
00:52:35,430 --> 00:52:34,079
professional way that they approached it

1634
00:52:37,510 --> 00:52:35,440
as well as the credible military

1635
00:52:38,069 --> 00:52:37,520
witnesses about a year and a half prior

1636
00:52:40,549 --> 00:52:38,079
to that

1637
00:52:41,109 --> 00:52:40,559
uh i had received a call from a a

1638
00:52:43,510 --> 00:52:41,119
colleague

1639
00:52:44,390 --> 00:52:43,520
and friend who stated you know i've been

1640
00:52:46,150 --> 00:52:44,400
talking

1641
00:52:47,829 --> 00:52:46,160
to chris mellon do you know who he is i

1642
00:52:49,109 --> 00:52:47,839
said well i know who he is i certainly

1643
00:52:51,030 --> 00:52:49,119
don't know chris

1644
00:52:52,950 --> 00:52:51,040
and he said well he wants to talk to

1645
00:52:54,150 --> 00:52:52,960
somebody about triangles and i suggested

1646
00:52:55,589 --> 00:52:54,160
he talk to you

1647
00:52:56,950 --> 00:52:55,599
do you mind if i give him your your

1648
00:52:58,390 --> 00:52:56,960
number he goes i don't want to give

1649
00:52:59,510 --> 00:52:58,400
anyone's number out without checking i

1650
00:53:01,190 --> 00:52:59,520
said of course i said

1651
00:53:02,710 --> 00:53:01,200
if chris has time i'd love to have a

1652
00:53:05,829 --> 00:53:02,720
chat with him about the subject

1653
00:53:07,589 --> 00:53:05,839
given his background and so uh a series

1654
00:53:09,270 --> 00:53:07,599
of emails and about two or three weeks

1655
00:53:11,030 --> 00:53:09,280
went by we were trying to coordinate our

1656
00:53:12,470 --> 00:53:11,040
busy schedules at that time

1657
00:53:14,870 --> 00:53:12,480
and i was literally sitting here in this

1658
00:53:17,510 --> 00:53:14,880
very chair and we had a wonderful

1659
00:53:18,309 --> 00:53:17,520
hour and a half long conversation and uh

1660
00:53:20,790 --> 00:53:18,319
chris was

1661
00:53:21,829 --> 00:53:20,800
very kind to preface the phone call by

1662
00:53:23,430 --> 00:53:21,839
saying you know dave

1663
00:53:24,950 --> 00:53:23,440
i just want to let you know i read your

1664
00:53:26,870 --> 00:53:24,960
book when it first came out i'm a huge

1665
00:53:29,510 --> 00:53:26,880
fan of your research which was very

1666
00:53:31,030 --> 00:53:29,520
humbling given someone of chris's

1667
00:53:34,309 --> 00:53:31,040
intelligence and his background

1668
00:53:36,069 --> 00:53:34,319
in intelligence and so uh it really

1669
00:53:37,670 --> 00:53:36,079
initiated a conversation about an hour

1670
00:53:39,510 --> 00:53:37,680
and a half long discussion

1671
00:53:41,190 --> 00:53:39,520
about the ufo subject and the thing i

1672
00:53:44,069 --> 00:53:41,200
always like to point out

1673
00:53:44,549 --> 00:53:44,079
there are so many uh scripted shows out

1674
00:53:47,109 --> 00:53:44,559
there

1675
00:53:48,549 --> 00:53:47,119
uh ufos and otherwise the one thing i

1676
00:53:50,870 --> 00:53:48,559
like to point out is

1677
00:53:53,190 --> 00:53:50,880
chris genuinely has an interest in

1678
00:53:55,190 --> 00:53:53,200
triangular ufos this was not just some

1679
00:53:56,710 --> 00:53:55,200
creation for the tv show

1680
00:53:59,510 --> 00:53:56,720
we talked for an hour and a half

1681
00:54:00,870 --> 00:53:59,520
intently on the triangular ufo subject

1682
00:54:01,270 --> 00:54:00,880
about a year and a half prior to the

1683
00:54:04,069 --> 00:54:01,280
show

1684
00:54:06,069 --> 00:54:04,079
manifesting itself and chris has a

1685
00:54:07,670 --> 00:54:06,079
vested interest in these things he truly

1686
00:54:09,030 --> 00:54:07,680
is trying to figure out what the hell

1687
00:54:11,910 --> 00:54:09,040
these things are

1688
00:54:13,670 --> 00:54:11,920
and uh to your point you know ryan he

1689
00:54:15,910 --> 00:54:13,680
was in a very key position

1690
00:54:17,430 --> 00:54:15,920
to have access to information that you

1691
00:54:18,710 --> 00:54:17,440
know none of us could dream of having

1692
00:54:21,750 --> 00:54:18,720
access to

1693
00:54:22,150 --> 00:54:21,760
and you know despite his ability to look

1694
00:54:27,430 --> 00:54:22,160
at

1695
00:54:30,309 --> 00:54:27,440
things are highly anomalous

1696
00:54:32,150 --> 00:54:30,319
and they need to be investigated and so

1697
00:54:33,510 --> 00:54:32,160
really that that was the extent of it i

1698
00:54:36,230 --> 00:54:33,520
think we might have shared some

1699
00:54:39,270 --> 00:54:36,240
some emails after that and then fast

1700
00:54:42,069 --> 00:54:39,280
forward after season one of unidentified

1701
00:54:43,510 --> 00:54:42,079
uh the executive producer contacted me

1702
00:54:44,549 --> 00:54:43,520
and he said you know david he goes i

1703
00:54:46,150 --> 00:54:44,559
don't know if you're familiar with our

1704
00:54:46,549 --> 00:54:46,160
show unidentified but we're looking to

1705
00:54:49,349 --> 00:54:46,559
do

1706
00:54:50,789 --> 00:54:49,359
a season two and in this particular

1707
00:54:53,750 --> 00:54:50,799
season we're going to focus

1708
00:54:55,510 --> 00:54:53,760
on certain subjects within the ufo field

1709
00:54:56,390 --> 00:54:55,520
and one we want to do is an episode on

1710
00:54:58,630 --> 00:54:56,400
triangles

1711
00:55:00,870 --> 00:54:58,640
and so they googled triangular ufos and

1712
00:55:02,870 --> 00:55:00,880
i guess my name came up multiple times

1713
00:55:04,230 --> 00:55:02,880
and he said you know i've got a copy of

1714
00:55:05,589 --> 00:55:04,240
your book and i'm going through it this

1715
00:55:05,990 --> 00:55:05,599
is some really interesting historical

1716
00:55:08,710 --> 00:55:06,000
research

1717
00:55:10,390 --> 00:55:08,720
you've done in connecting the dots and

1718
00:55:14,230 --> 00:55:10,400
during the course of the conversation

1719
00:55:18,309 --> 00:55:14,240
i stated that if this show season two

1720
00:55:20,069 --> 00:55:18,319
of the show is as credible as season one

1721
00:55:22,069 --> 00:55:20,079
uh contrary to what i usually tell

1722
00:55:23,589 --> 00:55:22,079
producers i would be interested in

1723
00:55:25,430 --> 00:55:23,599
participating in this

1724
00:55:26,950 --> 00:55:25,440
and then i proceeded to say by any

1725
00:55:29,270 --> 00:55:26,960
chance have you talked to chris

1726
00:55:31,349 --> 00:55:29,280
about this particular episode and the

1727
00:55:31,990 --> 00:55:31,359
executive producer said no why and i

1728
00:55:33,990 --> 00:55:32,000
said well

1729
00:55:35,910 --> 00:55:34,000
chris has a particular interest in this

1730
00:55:37,750 --> 00:55:35,920
subset of ufo reports

1731
00:55:39,190 --> 00:55:37,760
and i said we we chatted about a year

1732
00:55:41,109 --> 00:55:39,200
year and a half ago

1733
00:55:42,710 --> 00:55:41,119
about my research and about this

1734
00:55:44,309 --> 00:55:42,720
particular subject matter

1735
00:55:45,589 --> 00:55:44,319
and he was completely shocked he goes no

1736
00:55:47,670 --> 00:55:45,599
he goes i haven't had a chance to talk

1737
00:55:50,309 --> 00:55:47,680
to chris specifically about this yet

1738
00:55:52,230 --> 00:55:50,319
and i said well i said you know i don't

1739
00:55:54,870 --> 00:55:52,240
want to sound demanding but i said

1740
00:55:56,069 --> 00:55:54,880
if the caliber of the show mirrors

1741
00:55:57,750 --> 00:55:56,079
season one

1742
00:55:59,510 --> 00:55:57,760
and if you can get chris to come out and

1743
00:56:01,030 --> 00:55:59,520
meet with me i said i'd be interested in

1744
00:56:02,630 --> 00:56:01,040
participating so

1745
00:56:04,470 --> 00:56:02,640
i i tried to use as much leverage as i

1746
00:56:06,150 --> 00:56:04,480
could to try to get chris to come out

1747
00:56:06,870 --> 00:56:06,160
but i don't think he needed any leverage

1748
00:56:08,950 --> 00:56:06,880
i think he was

1749
00:56:11,190 --> 00:56:08,960
interested in coming out meeting with me

1750
00:56:12,870 --> 00:56:11,200
to talk about my research firsthand

1751
00:56:14,870 --> 00:56:12,880
and i might add to be able to talk here

1752
00:56:17,109 --> 00:56:14,880
in the research room where obviously all

1753
00:56:20,069 --> 00:56:17,119
of the original source materials are

1754
00:56:21,990 --> 00:56:20,079
from which i wrote my book so he was

1755
00:56:25,190 --> 00:56:22,000
very interested in that

1756
00:56:28,309 --> 00:56:25,200
and it was a busy day of filming

1757
00:56:28,870 --> 00:56:28,319
that particular day and again i loved

1758
00:56:32,710 --> 00:56:28,880
the way

1759
00:56:34,069 --> 00:56:32,720
that the producers orchestrated the show

1760
00:56:36,549 --> 00:56:34,079
i've done a lot of shows that are

1761
00:56:38,630 --> 00:56:36,559
scripted or semi-scripted

1762
00:56:40,390 --> 00:56:38,640
and i always tell people when you see

1763
00:56:41,270 --> 00:56:40,400
chris and i meet for the first time on

1764
00:56:43,349 --> 00:56:41,280
camera

1765
00:56:45,190 --> 00:56:43,359
that's literally the first time we met

1766
00:56:46,870 --> 00:56:45,200
um we were doing uh

1767
00:56:49,270 --> 00:56:46,880
some b-roll filming where they're just

1768
00:56:50,150 --> 00:56:49,280
filming shots of the research room and

1769
00:56:52,230 --> 00:56:50,160
images

1770
00:56:53,589 --> 00:56:52,240
and some of the ufo reports i had and

1771
00:56:54,710 --> 00:56:53,599
then they were doing some just direct

1772
00:56:57,030 --> 00:56:54,720
one-on-one

1773
00:56:58,950 --> 00:56:57,040
uh interviewing on camera and it got to

1774
00:57:00,069 --> 00:56:58,960
be about maybe 11 11 30 and i asked the

1775
00:57:02,309 --> 00:57:00,079
producer i said

1776
00:57:03,829 --> 00:57:02,319
so you said chris is in town right they

1777
00:57:05,430 --> 00:57:03,839
said oh yeah we have him here he's

1778
00:57:07,030 --> 00:57:05,440
driving around the neighborhood but we

1779
00:57:09,030 --> 00:57:07,040
don't want him to meet you

1780
00:57:10,309 --> 00:57:09,040
until you meet on camera because we want

1781
00:57:12,069 --> 00:57:10,319
it to be real

1782
00:57:13,670 --> 00:57:12,079
just to give you a flavor they really

1783
00:57:15,750 --> 00:57:13,680
want the show to be authentic

1784
00:57:17,430 --> 00:57:15,760
in that sense and you don't often find

1785
00:57:19,829 --> 00:57:17,440
it as you know ryan in productions

1786
00:57:21,430 --> 00:57:19,839
it's a lot of it's choreographed staged

1787
00:57:23,030 --> 00:57:21,440
scripted all ahead of time

1788
00:57:24,549 --> 00:57:23,040
and so literally when you see us on

1789
00:57:26,069 --> 00:57:24,559
camera and i say it's nice to finally

1790
00:57:27,349 --> 00:57:26,079
meet you i was anxiously waiting to

1791
00:57:28,950 --> 00:57:27,359
finally meet him after

1792
00:57:30,870 --> 00:57:28,960
a whole morning of filming where he's

1793
00:57:32,950 --> 00:57:30,880
driving around my neighborhood

1794
00:57:34,870 --> 00:57:32,960
and so it was really exciting and we did

1795
00:57:35,750 --> 00:57:34,880
have just a few moments that day during

1796
00:57:38,390 --> 00:57:35,760
the filming

1797
00:57:39,990 --> 00:57:38,400
uh we had an unseasonably warm day that

1798
00:57:42,390 --> 00:57:40,000
particular time of year in the

1799
00:57:43,910 --> 00:57:42,400
fall and we were able to sit on my patio

1800
00:57:45,510 --> 00:57:43,920
and have lunch together

1801
00:57:46,710 --> 00:57:45,520
and then we had a couple coffee breaks

1802
00:57:48,230 --> 00:57:46,720
where we're standing in my kitchen

1803
00:57:49,030 --> 00:57:48,240
having coffee and just talking about the

1804
00:57:50,789 --> 00:57:49,040
subject

1805
00:57:52,710 --> 00:57:50,799
and i will say you know chris and i

1806
00:57:54,630 --> 00:57:52,720
still continue to keep in touch

1807
00:57:55,910 --> 00:57:54,640
as i find historical cases or those i

1808
00:57:58,390 --> 00:57:55,920
think he might be uh

1809
00:57:59,990 --> 00:57:58,400
have interest in i'll email those to him

1810
00:58:00,470 --> 00:58:00,000
as i would anybody that's seriously

1811
00:58:02,230 --> 00:58:00,480
taking

1812
00:58:03,829 --> 00:58:02,240
you know the subject seriously and

1813
00:58:06,470 --> 00:58:03,839
trying to find answers

1814
00:58:07,910 --> 00:58:06,480
and um you know so we and he'll use me

1815
00:58:09,829 --> 00:58:07,920
as a sounding board sometime he'll ask

1816
00:58:11,430 --> 00:58:09,839
me hey did you hear about this case and

1817
00:58:13,510 --> 00:58:11,440
i'll give him my two cents on what i

1818
00:58:15,349 --> 00:58:13,520
think and so um

1819
00:58:16,789 --> 00:58:15,359
i you know i we've developed a really

1820
00:58:17,990 --> 00:58:16,799
good working relationship i guess you

1821
00:58:20,309 --> 00:58:18,000
could say in that sense

1822
00:58:21,990 --> 00:58:20,319
and hope to to meet with him again you

1823
00:58:23,109 --> 00:58:22,000
know post covid at some point at a

1824
00:58:25,349 --> 00:58:23,119
conference or

1825
00:58:27,190 --> 00:58:25,359
uh you know personal get together but uh

1826
00:58:27,670 --> 00:58:27,200
we continued the dialogue after the show

1827
00:58:30,309 --> 00:58:27,680
which is

1828
00:58:31,990 --> 00:58:30,319
really nice because i i respect chris

1829
00:58:34,470 --> 00:58:32,000
chris is one of the most intelligent

1830
00:58:35,750 --> 00:58:34,480
insightful people that i can can think

1831
00:58:37,430 --> 00:58:35,760
of

1832
00:58:39,510 --> 00:58:37,440
to the point where in all my

1833
00:58:40,789 --> 00:58:39,520
conversations both on camera as well as

1834
00:58:42,710 --> 00:58:40,799
off camera

1835
00:58:44,950 --> 00:58:42,720
with chris and you may not see it so

1836
00:58:47,270 --> 00:58:44,960
much on camera but when you're with him

1837
00:58:49,430 --> 00:58:47,280
his wheels are always turning he's

1838
00:58:51,990 --> 00:58:49,440
always analyzing what you're telling him

1839
00:58:52,630 --> 00:58:52,000
and i appreciate that and i value that

1840
00:58:54,710 --> 00:58:52,640
and i think he

1841
00:58:56,950 --> 00:58:54,720
he values my objectivity and my research

1842
00:58:58,870 --> 00:58:56,960
methodology with regard to the subject

1843
00:59:00,549 --> 00:58:58,880
so there's that mutual admiration there

1844
00:59:02,789 --> 00:59:00,559
and i've had a lot of people tell me

1845
00:59:04,309 --> 00:59:02,799
yeah watching the show it seems like you

1846
00:59:05,670 --> 00:59:04,319
guys have really good chemistry

1847
00:59:07,750 --> 00:59:05,680
and you know without them knowing

1848
00:59:08,710 --> 00:59:07,760
anything that just kind of translated on

1849
00:59:11,670 --> 00:59:08,720
camera

1850
00:59:13,510 --> 00:59:11,680
and i was honored i will tell you i

1851
00:59:14,950 --> 00:59:13,520
didn't realize until the conclusion of

1852
00:59:21,109 --> 00:59:14,960
season two

1853
00:59:23,750 --> 00:59:21,119
was the only civilian ufo researcher

1854
00:59:24,870 --> 00:59:23,760
that they solicited for information uh

1855
00:59:26,630 --> 00:59:24,880
robert christine

1856
00:59:28,470 --> 00:59:26,640
robert hastings provided a lot for their

1857
00:59:29,190 --> 00:59:28,480
ufos and nukes and i know robert very

1858
00:59:31,589 --> 00:59:29,200
well

1859
00:59:33,510 --> 00:59:31,599
um but they didn't really get a chance

1860
00:59:35,589 --> 00:59:33,520
to get him on camera to talk about his

1861
00:59:37,670 --> 00:59:35,599
research on ufos and nukes

1862
00:59:39,109 --> 00:59:37,680
uh they did talk about his personal

1863
00:59:40,230 --> 00:59:39,119
experiences that he's had as an

1864
00:59:41,990 --> 00:59:40,240
experiencer

1865
00:59:43,510 --> 00:59:42,000
uh which was very nice uh that was

1866
00:59:45,589 --> 00:59:43,520
really great that you know

1867
00:59:47,109 --> 00:59:45,599
he was able to really come out and talk

1868
00:59:49,190 --> 00:59:47,119
about that more openly

1869
00:59:51,349 --> 00:59:49,200
but uh i had a couple people say you

1870
00:59:54,470 --> 00:59:51,359
know you're the only civilian that they

1871
00:59:56,069 --> 00:59:54,480
went to for information and i kind of

1872
00:59:56,870 --> 00:59:56,079
went back and watched season two again

1873
01:00:00,150 --> 00:59:56,880
and i'm like

1874
01:00:01,910 --> 01:00:00,160
wow they're right and so yeah i don't i

1875
01:00:03,750 --> 01:00:01,920
don't say that to be egotistical i just

1876
01:00:06,150 --> 01:00:03,760
i was truly humbled

1877
01:00:07,670 --> 01:00:06,160
because i know how well they vet their

1878
01:00:09,670 --> 01:00:07,680
information on that show

1879
01:00:10,710 --> 01:00:09,680
uh as far as military information and

1880
01:00:12,950 --> 01:00:10,720
otherwise

1881
01:00:14,069 --> 01:00:12,960
and so i i was you know you hear this

1882
01:00:16,630 --> 01:00:14,079
it's a cliche

1883
01:00:18,630 --> 01:00:16,640
i was truly honored to be a participant

1884
01:00:20,309 --> 01:00:18,640
in that production

1885
01:00:21,750 --> 01:00:20,319
it's that's so good to hear that it was

1886
01:00:24,470 --> 01:00:21,760
a good experience because

1887
01:00:25,990 --> 01:00:24,480
yes you know a lot of ufo researchers

1888
01:00:28,549 --> 01:00:26,000
who have the opportunity

1889
01:00:29,030 --> 01:00:28,559
to go on television are often let down

1890
01:00:35,670 --> 01:00:29,040
and

1891
01:00:37,030 --> 01:00:35,680
my experience exactly same with me

1892
01:00:38,630 --> 01:00:37,040
brother but um

1893
01:00:40,950 --> 01:00:38,640
yes it's good to know that it was a

1894
01:00:41,510 --> 01:00:40,960
mutually beneficial experience for you

1895
01:00:45,270 --> 01:00:41,520
and chris

1896
01:00:47,190 --> 01:00:45,280
and um i do have to touch on one aspect

1897
01:00:49,829 --> 01:00:47,200
be because i think it is

1898
01:00:52,069 --> 01:00:49,839
probably one of the biggest revelations

1899
01:00:54,549 --> 01:00:52,079
having to do with these triangles

1900
01:00:56,470 --> 01:00:54,559
uh specifically and that was something

1901
01:00:58,230 --> 01:00:56,480
that you and chris talked about

1902
01:00:59,829 --> 01:00:58,240
and i i'm sure you know where this is

1903
01:01:02,710 --> 01:00:59,839
going the idea of

1904
01:01:03,750 --> 01:01:02,720
what these triangles are doing the

1905
01:01:06,630 --> 01:01:03,760
motivation

1906
01:01:08,390 --> 01:01:06,640
the reason for their structure um could

1907
01:01:09,270 --> 01:01:08,400
you maybe run us through that a little

1908
01:01:10,789 --> 01:01:09,280
bit of what

1909
01:01:12,470 --> 01:01:10,799
what chris brought to you what you

1910
01:01:14,549 --> 01:01:12,480
brought to him in terms of this

1911
01:01:15,750 --> 01:01:14,559
this pattern that you guys found well

1912
01:01:17,270 --> 01:01:15,760
chris was talking about some of the

1913
01:01:18,870 --> 01:01:17,280
military cases that

1914
01:01:20,390 --> 01:01:18,880
you know he had come across and some of

1915
01:01:22,710 --> 01:01:20,400
the military witnesses that he had

1916
01:01:23,349 --> 01:01:22,720
spoken with or that the team had spoken

1917
01:01:25,270 --> 01:01:23,359
with

1918
01:01:27,430 --> 01:01:25,280
and so that was very insightful because

1919
01:01:28,549 --> 01:01:27,440
prior to that i even said this in early

1920
01:01:29,270 --> 01:01:28,559
lectures for those that may have

1921
01:01:30,549 --> 01:01:29,280
attended

1922
01:01:32,390 --> 01:01:30,559
how come none of these triangles have

1923
01:01:33,510 --> 01:01:32,400
been seen in active military theater

1924
01:01:36,470 --> 01:01:33,520
operations

1925
01:01:38,309 --> 01:01:36,480
well i i was proven that they have as a

1926
01:01:41,030 --> 01:01:38,319
result of that episode and

1927
01:01:41,990 --> 01:01:41,040
uh subsequent to that episode airing i

1928
01:01:44,950 --> 01:01:42,000
might add i was

1929
01:01:47,190 --> 01:01:44,960
inundated with emails from civilians and

1930
01:01:48,549 --> 01:01:47,200
military both active and retired

1931
01:01:49,990 --> 01:01:48,559
military people

1932
01:01:52,230 --> 01:01:50,000
with their own accounts and i will

1933
01:01:53,990 --> 01:01:52,240
apologize right now on camera

1934
01:01:56,390 --> 01:01:54,000
there was absolutely no way i could

1935
01:01:57,910 --> 01:01:56,400
respond to everybody so i apologize

1936
01:01:59,990 --> 01:01:57,920
publicly

1937
01:02:01,670 --> 01:02:00,000
i do have a family i do have a job and i

1938
01:02:04,630 --> 01:02:01,680
do this in my spare time

1939
01:02:06,870 --> 01:02:04,640
i literally received probably 120 or

1940
01:02:08,069 --> 01:02:06,880
more emails and i tried to respond to as

1941
01:02:09,589 --> 01:02:08,079
many as i could so

1942
01:02:11,430 --> 01:02:09,599
if there's anybody out there listening i

1943
01:02:12,309 --> 01:02:11,440
apologize if i haven't gotten back with

1944
01:02:14,710 --> 01:02:12,319
you i do have

1945
01:02:17,109 --> 01:02:14,720
all of the emails printed i have them

1946
01:02:18,870 --> 01:02:17,119
digitized in my computer as well

1947
01:02:20,390 --> 01:02:18,880
and perhaps one day i'll get around to

1948
01:02:22,549 --> 01:02:20,400
everyone

1949
01:02:24,789 --> 01:02:22,559
but chris really wanted to know and

1950
01:02:26,390 --> 01:02:24,799
touch on the history of reports

1951
01:02:29,109 --> 01:02:26,400
and more specifically the common

1952
01:02:31,029 --> 01:02:29,119
characteristics because admittedly

1953
01:02:32,710 --> 01:02:31,039
they were looking at a handful of cases

1954
01:02:34,549 --> 01:02:32,720
involving military

1955
01:02:36,230 --> 01:02:34,559
but they wanted to kind of create a

1956
01:02:39,109 --> 01:02:36,240
broader context if you will

1957
01:02:40,390 --> 01:02:39,119
for this particular subset of objects

1958
01:02:41,589 --> 01:02:40,400
and i think i have one of the largest

1959
01:02:44,630 --> 01:02:41,599
databases

1960
01:02:46,390 --> 01:02:44,640
on the triangular ufo subject matter and

1961
01:02:47,990 --> 01:02:46,400
again chris being personally familiar

1962
01:02:49,829 --> 01:02:48,000
with my work i think he could vouch for

1963
01:02:50,549 --> 01:02:49,839
the credibility factor with regard to

1964
01:02:52,069 --> 01:02:50,559
that

1965
01:02:53,990 --> 01:02:52,079
and so we were talking about different

1966
01:02:56,630 --> 01:02:54,000
things we we profiled actually the

1967
01:02:58,710 --> 01:02:56,640
january 5th 2000 southern illinois case

1968
01:03:00,549 --> 01:02:58,720
and then they also revisited which i was

1969
01:03:02,309 --> 01:03:00,559
extremely happy to see

1970
01:03:04,549 --> 01:03:02,319
the famous hudson valley wave in new

1971
01:03:06,309 --> 01:03:04,559
york from the 1980s

1972
01:03:07,589 --> 01:03:06,319
and were able to actually track down

1973
01:03:08,309 --> 01:03:07,599
some of the witnesses that are still

1974
01:03:10,870 --> 01:03:08,319
around

1975
01:03:13,029 --> 01:03:10,880
and still after decades stick by their

1976
01:03:16,870 --> 01:03:13,039
accounts that they saw these huge

1977
01:03:18,710 --> 01:03:16,880
triangular objects in the sky again

1978
01:03:20,549 --> 01:03:18,720
in the 1980s they were describing what

1979
01:03:22,150 --> 01:03:20,559
is still being reported today

1980
01:03:25,029 --> 01:03:22,160
and which was being reported in the

1981
01:03:28,470 --> 01:03:25,039
1950s 60s and even late 40s

1982
01:03:29,990 --> 01:03:28,480
so you know i think we can never dismiss

1983
01:03:32,549 --> 01:03:30,000
that you can't arbitrarily

1984
01:03:33,190 --> 01:03:32,559
say well triangular ufos that are being

1985
01:03:35,750 --> 01:03:33,200
reported

1986
01:03:36,710 --> 01:03:35,760
post stealth technology are credible but

1987
01:03:39,349 --> 01:03:36,720
we're going to discount

1988
01:03:40,230 --> 01:03:39,359
70 or 70 years plus worth of other

1989
01:03:41,990 --> 01:03:40,240
accounts

1990
01:03:43,510 --> 01:03:42,000
i mean that's not scientific that's not

1991
01:03:44,309 --> 01:03:43,520
objective that's just being completely

1992
01:03:46,710 --> 01:03:44,319
arbitrary

1993
01:03:48,950 --> 01:03:46,720
in your approach and so like i say you

1994
01:03:50,710 --> 01:03:48,960
have to view the totality of evidence

1995
01:03:52,150 --> 01:03:50,720
but in the course of that conversation

1996
01:03:53,109 --> 01:03:52,160
and i i really thought this was

1997
01:03:56,630 --> 01:03:53,119
interesting

1998
01:03:59,190 --> 01:03:56,640
chris uh postulated the idea that

1999
01:04:00,950 --> 01:03:59,200
these triangular ufos might be on some

2000
01:04:01,829 --> 01:04:00,960
type of reconnaissance or mapping

2001
01:04:05,510 --> 01:04:01,839
mission

2002
01:04:07,270 --> 01:04:05,520
and i think in a very logical fashion

2003
01:04:09,190 --> 01:04:07,280
he looked at the characteristics that i

2004
01:04:10,549 --> 01:04:09,200
described and the characteristics that

2005
01:04:11,670 --> 01:04:10,559
he had seen in the reports they had

2006
01:04:15,430 --> 01:04:11,680
investigated

2007
01:04:17,670 --> 01:04:15,440
the low level flight the very slow speed

2008
01:04:19,190 --> 01:04:17,680
the triangular lights you know with a

2009
01:04:20,870 --> 01:04:19,200
light at each point of the triangle

2010
01:04:22,150 --> 01:04:20,880
which is not in all the accounts i might

2011
01:04:23,589 --> 01:04:22,160
add and in some of the recreations

2012
01:04:24,390 --> 01:04:23,599
you'll notice they didn't have lights

2013
01:04:25,910 --> 01:04:24,400
like that

2014
01:04:27,510 --> 01:04:25,920
there are variation in the lighting

2015
01:04:30,230 --> 01:04:27,520
patterns but the most

2016
01:04:30,870 --> 01:04:30,240
uh prevalent is of course the the point

2017
01:04:34,230 --> 01:04:30,880
of light

2018
01:04:36,470 --> 01:04:34,240
at each point of the triangle and chris

2019
01:04:38,470 --> 01:04:36,480
postulated could these things be doing

2020
01:04:41,349 --> 01:04:38,480
some type of mapping or scanning

2021
01:04:42,630 --> 01:04:41,359
or reconnaissance operation as a result

2022
01:04:44,549 --> 01:04:42,640
of their behaviors

2023
01:04:45,670 --> 01:04:44,559
and as a result of thinking that these

2024
01:04:47,349 --> 01:04:45,680
lights might be some type of

2025
01:04:49,029 --> 01:04:47,359
triangulation method

2026
01:04:50,470 --> 01:04:49,039
for pinpointing and mapping and

2027
01:04:53,670 --> 01:04:50,480
measuring things

2028
01:04:55,029 --> 01:04:53,680
and i have to say again what i alluded

2029
01:04:56,230 --> 01:04:55,039
to earlier doesn't matter what you

2030
01:04:57,109 --> 01:04:56,240
believe it matters what the data

2031
01:04:59,510 --> 01:04:57,119
reflects

2032
01:05:01,270 --> 01:04:59,520
and there is logic to what he's putting

2033
01:05:02,789 --> 01:05:01,280
forth i i don't think we can just

2034
01:05:03,109 --> 01:05:02,799
discount that i think it's one of the

2035
01:05:05,829 --> 01:05:03,119
most

2036
01:05:06,390 --> 01:05:05,839
logical explanations based on what we've

2037
01:05:09,109 --> 01:05:06,400
seen

2038
01:05:11,349 --> 01:05:09,119
with the data time and time again um

2039
01:05:12,390 --> 01:05:11,359
i've often cited the fact that i thought

2040
01:05:15,029 --> 01:05:12,400
perhaps

2041
01:05:16,069 --> 01:05:15,039
these lights which obviously are not faa

2042
01:05:17,750 --> 01:05:16,079
lighting

2043
01:05:19,190 --> 01:05:17,760
if these things are from the place they

2044
01:05:21,829 --> 01:05:19,200
don't need to adhere to our faa

2045
01:05:23,270 --> 01:05:21,839
flight regulations with regard to lights

2046
01:05:24,870 --> 01:05:23,280
i always felt that they were an integral

2047
01:05:26,390 --> 01:05:24,880
part of the propulsion

2048
01:05:28,870 --> 01:05:26,400
system or there were some type of

2049
01:05:30,549 --> 01:05:28,880
sensors that were

2050
01:05:32,470 --> 01:05:30,559
some technology that we're not familiar

2051
01:05:36,470 --> 01:05:32,480
with and so

2052
01:05:38,069 --> 01:05:36,480
but going with chris's idea um

2053
01:05:39,990 --> 01:05:38,079
it's interesting because i got to

2054
01:05:40,950 --> 01:05:40,000
thinking there are accounts where

2055
01:05:44,150 --> 01:05:40,960
there's no lights

2056
01:05:44,549 --> 01:05:44,160
on the triangles so how can that account

2057
01:05:46,309 --> 01:05:44,559
for

2058
01:05:47,990 --> 01:05:46,319
propulsion if the lights aren't on it's

2059
01:05:49,829 --> 01:05:48,000
got like an f-16 if you don't see the

2060
01:05:51,750 --> 01:05:49,839
fire behind the f-16

2061
01:05:53,589 --> 01:05:51,760
in the jet you know it's probably gonna

2062
01:05:55,190 --> 01:05:53,599
drop out of the sky well likewise if you

2063
01:05:56,870 --> 01:05:55,200
don't see these three points of light

2064
01:05:58,230 --> 01:05:56,880
you know this whole triangle is possibly

2065
01:06:00,230 --> 01:05:58,240
going to come down

2066
01:06:02,230 --> 01:06:00,240
so it got me thinking that you know

2067
01:06:05,029 --> 01:06:02,240
chris might be on the right line

2068
01:06:06,309 --> 01:06:05,039
and again chris may be citing and again

2069
01:06:08,710 --> 01:06:06,319
i can only speculate

2070
01:06:09,349 --> 01:06:08,720
maybe citing information that he can't

2071
01:06:11,510 --> 01:06:09,359
disclose

2072
01:06:12,950 --> 01:06:11,520
further you know again he's had insight

2073
01:06:15,750 --> 01:06:12,960
to other cases

2074
01:06:17,510 --> 01:06:15,760
that might shed light and and maybe even

2075
01:06:17,990 --> 01:06:17,520
you know be the impetus for him coming

2076
01:06:20,789 --> 01:06:18,000
up with this

2077
01:06:22,950 --> 01:06:20,799
idea i i don't know you know chris is

2078
01:06:24,390 --> 01:06:22,960
very respectful of security and things

2079
01:06:26,309 --> 01:06:24,400
that are classified and

2080
01:06:27,670 --> 01:06:26,319
people think because i know chris and we

2081
01:06:29,510 --> 01:06:27,680
still keep in touch that i have all this

2082
01:06:32,549 --> 01:06:29,520
inside information i don't

2083
01:06:34,309 --> 01:06:32,559
uh i provide information to chris and i

2084
01:06:35,430 --> 01:06:34,319
know chris can't disclose certain things

2085
01:06:38,309 --> 01:06:35,440
and i respect that

2086
01:06:39,990 --> 01:06:38,319
you know um but i think what's

2087
01:06:42,789 --> 01:06:40,000
interesting about the show

2088
01:06:44,150 --> 01:06:42,799
about chris and about lou and it's

2089
01:06:46,230 --> 01:06:44,160
something that sometimes

2090
01:06:48,549 --> 01:06:46,240
uh they get a little bit of ribbing on

2091
01:06:50,309 --> 01:06:48,559
on the part of the ufo community is

2092
01:06:51,829 --> 01:06:50,319
i've seen a lot of postings on social

2093
01:06:54,150 --> 01:06:51,839
media that well

2094
01:06:55,109 --> 01:06:54,160
you know they're they're uh acting like

2095
01:06:57,670 --> 01:06:55,119
these things are

2096
01:06:58,230 --> 01:06:57,680
hostile or they're violent or that

2097
01:07:01,670 --> 01:06:58,240
they're

2098
01:07:03,750 --> 01:07:01,680
a security threat a defense threat well

2099
01:07:05,029 --> 01:07:03,760
i put in my book you know seven eight

2100
01:07:07,990 --> 01:07:05,039
years ago now

2101
01:07:09,349 --> 01:07:08,000
that for governments of the world not

2102
01:07:11,990 --> 01:07:09,359
just united states government

2103
01:07:13,270 --> 01:07:12,000
governments of the world military

2104
01:07:15,670 --> 01:07:13,280
organizations of the world and

2105
01:07:17,910 --> 01:07:15,680
intelligence networks of the world

2106
01:07:18,870 --> 01:07:17,920
if they recognize that these things are

2107
01:07:21,109 --> 01:07:18,880
truly

2108
01:07:23,270 --> 01:07:21,119
real there's an objective reality to

2109
01:07:25,109 --> 01:07:23,280
these ufos or uaps

2110
01:07:27,349 --> 01:07:25,119
if they are moving through controlled

2111
01:07:29,829 --> 01:07:27,359
airspace without our knowing

2112
01:07:31,750 --> 01:07:29,839
if they're using some type of technology

2113
01:07:32,150 --> 01:07:31,760
that we can't understand again lots of

2114
01:07:35,270 --> 01:07:32,160
ifs

2115
01:07:36,789 --> 01:07:35,280
but we have to go down this road if they

2116
01:07:38,870 --> 01:07:36,799
can see that there is a genuine

2117
01:07:40,230 --> 01:07:38,880
phenomenon as pretty much has been

2118
01:07:41,510 --> 01:07:40,240
acknowledged since the new york times

2119
01:07:43,029 --> 01:07:41,520
article has hit in subsequent

2120
01:07:44,950 --> 01:07:43,039
revelations

2121
01:07:46,150 --> 01:07:44,960
it has to be viewed as a and this is the

2122
01:07:49,510 --> 01:07:46,160
key word people

2123
01:07:52,710 --> 01:07:49,520
potential threat because

2124
01:07:55,670 --> 01:07:52,720
if this thing whatever it is

2125
01:07:57,270 --> 01:07:55,680
is manifesting superior technology and

2126
01:07:58,870 --> 01:07:57,280
we don't know what it is we don't know

2127
01:08:00,789 --> 01:07:58,880
where it originates from

2128
01:08:02,870 --> 01:08:00,799
it has to be viewed as a potential

2129
01:08:04,870 --> 01:08:02,880
threat we have to keep in mind

2130
01:08:06,870 --> 01:08:04,880
that intelligence networks around the

2131
01:08:09,109 --> 01:08:06,880
world have think tanks

2132
01:08:11,029 --> 01:08:09,119
that work out scenarios for every

2133
01:08:13,270 --> 01:08:11,039
possible contingency

2134
01:08:15,109 --> 01:08:13,280
and this has to be one of those

2135
01:08:15,589 --> 01:08:15,119
historically when you look at ufo

2136
01:08:19,030 --> 01:08:15,599
accounts

2137
01:08:21,349 --> 01:08:19,040
triangular ufos or otherwise they do not

2138
01:08:22,309 --> 01:08:21,359
seem to be overtly hostile with rare

2139
01:08:23,510 --> 01:08:22,319
exceptions

2140
01:08:25,829 --> 01:08:23,520
there are certainly those rare

2141
01:08:28,229 --> 01:08:25,839
exceptions but when you look at the vast

2142
01:08:28,789 --> 01:08:28,239
majority of ufo reports they do not seem

2143
01:08:32,070 --> 01:08:28,799
to

2144
01:08:34,709 --> 01:08:32,080
exert or show overt hostile

2145
01:08:35,829 --> 01:08:34,719
um but as we don't know what we're

2146
01:08:37,990 --> 01:08:35,839
dealing with

2147
01:08:38,870 --> 01:08:38,000
as we don't know what variables are at

2148
01:08:41,510 --> 01:08:38,880
play

2149
01:08:43,910 --> 01:08:41,520
we don't know when say tomorrow or a

2150
01:08:46,070 --> 01:08:43,920
month from now or a year from now

2151
01:08:48,709 --> 01:08:46,080
these things might suddenly shift gears

2152
01:08:50,870 --> 01:08:48,719
and take on a whole different approach

2153
01:08:52,229 --> 01:08:50,880
and if you're in a position of authority

2154
01:08:54,309 --> 01:08:52,239
within the military

2155
01:08:56,070 --> 01:08:54,319
defense network if you're part of the

2156
01:08:58,870 --> 01:08:56,080
intelligence community

2157
01:08:59,749 --> 01:08:58,880
you have to consider those possibilities

2158
01:09:01,510 --> 01:08:59,759
and

2159
01:09:03,269 --> 01:09:01,520
have contingency plans on how to deal

2160
01:09:05,510 --> 01:09:03,279
with it i mean these are just

2161
01:09:07,590 --> 01:09:05,520
logical assumptions based on what they

2162
01:09:09,590 --> 01:09:07,600
do with any potential threat

2163
01:09:11,189 --> 01:09:09,600
and why should ufos or uaps be any

2164
01:09:12,309 --> 01:09:11,199
different considering we don't know what

2165
01:09:15,110 --> 01:09:12,319
they are

2166
01:09:16,950 --> 01:09:15,120
yeah such a good point and i mean again

2167
01:09:17,669 --> 01:09:16,960
of course that's the lens in which these

2168
01:09:19,990 --> 01:09:17,679
guys

2169
01:09:21,189 --> 01:09:20,000
are going to look at this and also let's

2170
01:09:24,390 --> 01:09:21,199
say for instance

2171
01:09:26,789 --> 01:09:24,400
there is a valid uh

2172
01:09:28,070 --> 01:09:26,799
evidence that these things are surveying

2173
01:09:31,110 --> 01:09:28,080
or mapping

2174
01:09:32,789 --> 01:09:31,120
our our our world why why are they doing

2175
01:09:33,189 --> 01:09:32,799
that we need to know the motivation for

2176
01:09:38,550 --> 01:09:33,199
that

2177
01:09:40,309 --> 01:09:38,560
admittedly there's been a successive

2178
01:09:42,149 --> 01:09:40,319
series of revelations since the new york

2179
01:09:43,749 --> 01:09:42,159
times article right the videos came out

2180
01:09:45,749 --> 01:09:43,759
then they officially endorsed the videos

2181
01:09:47,669 --> 01:09:45,759
then the navy came forward and said

2182
01:09:49,349 --> 01:09:47,679
yes they acknowledge the videos and by

2183
01:09:51,269 --> 01:09:49,359
the way we're also formulating official

2184
01:09:52,950 --> 01:09:51,279
policy procedure for naval personnel to

2185
01:09:55,350 --> 01:09:52,960
report uaps

2186
01:09:56,790 --> 01:09:55,360
one little statement in the the naval

2187
01:09:59,110 --> 01:09:56,800
spokesman's comment

2188
01:10:00,870 --> 01:09:59,120
that most people don't seize upon and i

2189
01:10:03,110 --> 01:10:00,880
can tell you my eyebrows went up and the

2190
01:10:05,270 --> 01:10:03,120
hair on the back of my neck stood on end

2191
01:10:07,590 --> 01:10:05,280
it stated one of the reasons they were

2192
01:10:10,470 --> 01:10:07,600
doing this is due to the increased

2193
01:10:11,990 --> 01:10:10,480
frequency of sightings within military

2194
01:10:15,270 --> 01:10:12,000
operations areas

2195
01:10:16,630 --> 01:10:15,280
of these uaps that is a very telling

2196
01:10:18,149 --> 01:10:16,640
statement because

2197
01:10:19,910 --> 01:10:18,159
since the new york times article came

2198
01:10:22,229 --> 01:10:19,920
out in all these successive

2199
01:10:23,990 --> 01:10:22,239
revelations with regard to the uap task

2200
01:10:25,590 --> 01:10:24,000
force and other things

2201
01:10:27,669 --> 01:10:25,600
the fundamental question i've asked

2202
01:10:28,229 --> 01:10:27,679
myself having been doing this now for 31

2203
01:10:30,149 --> 01:10:28,239
years

2204
01:10:31,830 --> 01:10:30,159
and looking at decades-long denials on

2205
01:10:35,030 --> 01:10:31,840
the part of the united states government

2206
01:10:36,550 --> 01:10:35,040
military why now

2207
01:10:38,709 --> 01:10:36,560
why now are they acknowledging the

2208
01:10:39,669 --> 01:10:38,719
phenomenon why now are they coming out

2209
01:10:41,830 --> 01:10:39,679
more publicly

2210
01:10:42,790 --> 01:10:41,840
and talking about it why now are they

2211
01:10:46,390 --> 01:10:42,800
releasing

2212
01:10:48,310 --> 01:10:46,400
dod videos we have to ask that question

2213
01:10:49,510 --> 01:10:48,320
and i think the naval spokesman gave us

2214
01:10:51,830 --> 01:10:49,520
insight into that

2215
01:10:52,709 --> 01:10:51,840
when they stated due to the increased

2216
01:10:55,669 --> 01:10:52,719
frequency

2217
01:10:57,270 --> 01:10:55,679
so are they seeing this huge surge in

2218
01:10:58,470 --> 01:10:57,280
sightings credible sightings on the part

2219
01:11:01,669 --> 01:10:58,480
of their military

2220
01:11:03,430 --> 01:11:01,679
and if so if you're wired like lou

2221
01:11:06,229 --> 01:11:03,440
if you're wired like chris from a

2222
01:11:07,990 --> 01:11:06,239
defense intelligence standpoint

2223
01:11:09,350 --> 01:11:08,000
how could you not stand up and take

2224
01:11:11,110 --> 01:11:09,360
notice of that

2225
01:11:12,630 --> 01:11:11,120
these are the facts as we have it's an

2226
01:11:15,669 --> 01:11:12,640
elegant story exactly

2227
01:11:17,990 --> 01:11:15,679
really concerned yep um

2228
01:11:19,350 --> 01:11:18,000
wow we there's so many roads we could go

2229
01:11:21,830 --> 01:11:19,360
down with that man but um

2230
01:11:22,630 --> 01:11:21,840
i do want to i want to get to this

2231
01:11:24,870 --> 01:11:22,640
latest

2232
01:11:26,550 --> 01:11:24,880
endeavor that you're doing with uh mark

2233
01:11:28,790 --> 01:11:26,560
rudiger um yes

2234
01:11:30,870 --> 01:11:28,800
this is incredible for those watching

2235
01:11:33,910 --> 01:11:30,880
the video version of this episode

2236
01:11:36,870 --> 01:11:33,920
you will see to david's right

2237
01:11:38,390 --> 01:11:36,880
those huge massive file cabinets which

2238
01:11:41,030 --> 01:11:38,400
uh i'm drooling just

2239
01:11:42,790 --> 01:11:41,040
wondering what's in there um tell us all

2240
01:11:44,790 --> 01:11:42,800
about what's going on man please

2241
01:11:46,470 --> 01:11:44,800
well let me just say that there's 15

2242
01:11:47,189 --> 01:11:46,480
file cabinets that stretch behind me

2243
01:11:50,149 --> 01:11:47,199
here

2244
01:11:51,590 --> 01:11:50,159
on the on the other side this direction

2245
01:11:53,510 --> 01:11:51,600
just to orient you

2246
01:11:55,510 --> 01:11:53,520
are the 15 file cabinets you saw and

2247
01:11:56,950 --> 01:11:55,520
unidentified the black filing cabinets

2248
01:11:58,790 --> 01:11:56,960
for those that that maybe have the

2249
01:12:01,430 --> 01:11:58,800
episode recorded or such

2250
01:12:03,350 --> 01:12:01,440
but so there's 30 file cabinets here but

2251
01:12:04,070 --> 01:12:03,360
this row stretching all the way back

2252
01:12:06,870 --> 01:12:04,080
behind me

2253
01:12:09,110 --> 01:12:06,880
and then around uh these are the

2254
01:12:12,310 --> 01:12:09,120
historic kuffos

2255
01:12:14,229 --> 01:12:12,320
ufo case file collection these are also

2256
01:12:16,470 --> 01:12:14,239
the personal files of dr j

2257
01:12:17,270 --> 01:12:16,480
allen heineck and also contain the

2258
01:12:19,110 --> 01:12:17,280
original

2259
01:12:20,630 --> 01:12:19,120
project blue book material that jay

2260
01:12:22,870 --> 01:12:20,640
allen hynek took with him

2261
01:12:24,950 --> 01:12:22,880
at the conclusion of project blue book

2262
01:12:27,750 --> 01:12:24,960
now the back story on this

2263
01:12:28,870 --> 01:12:27,760
um kufos the center for ufo studies out

2264
01:12:30,950 --> 01:12:28,880
of chicago

2265
01:12:32,709 --> 01:12:30,960
uh had been wrestling with what to do

2266
01:12:35,270 --> 01:12:32,719
with the physical files

2267
01:12:37,030 --> 01:12:35,280
and that being said there has been the

2268
01:12:38,950 --> 01:12:37,040
lion's share of work being done

2269
01:12:40,950 --> 01:12:38,960
on the part of barry greenwood and jan

2270
01:12:44,229 --> 01:12:40,960
aldridge to try to get

2271
01:12:45,110 --> 01:12:44,239
these extensive files scanned digitized

2272
01:12:46,950 --> 01:12:45,120
preserved

2273
01:12:48,790 --> 01:12:46,960
and then ultimately made accessible to

2274
01:12:49,590 --> 01:12:48,800
the general ufo community and general

2275
01:12:52,709 --> 01:12:49,600
public

2276
01:12:55,990 --> 01:12:52,719
but it's been very slow in that process

2277
01:12:57,110 --> 01:12:56,000
so a series of events uh i i know kufos

2278
01:12:58,630 --> 01:12:57,120
very well i know

2279
01:13:00,950 --> 01:12:58,640
dr mark rodiger he's a friend and

2280
01:13:02,550 --> 01:13:00,960
colleague i've known him mark uh just by

2281
01:13:04,070 --> 01:13:02,560
virtue of the fact being in chicago

2282
01:13:05,669 --> 01:13:04,080
where kufos was and me being

2283
01:13:07,830 --> 01:13:05,679
being illinois state director for mufon

2284
01:13:09,350 --> 01:13:07,840
for seven or eight years afforded us the

2285
01:13:11,350 --> 01:13:09,360
opportunity to get to know each other to

2286
01:13:13,430 --> 01:13:11,360
work together in a couple instances

2287
01:13:15,910 --> 01:13:13,440
and uh i have the utmost respect for

2288
01:13:18,070 --> 01:13:15,920
mark and uh considering my dear friend

2289
01:13:19,270 --> 01:13:18,080
but working with the kufos board they

2290
01:13:20,790 --> 01:13:19,280
were struggling with

2291
01:13:23,750 --> 01:13:20,800
what's ultimately going to happen to the

2292
01:13:24,630 --> 01:13:23,760
files they knew of my passion for ufo

2293
01:13:27,030 --> 01:13:24,640
history

2294
01:13:28,470 --> 01:13:27,040
the archive that i've already started

2295
01:13:30,630 --> 01:13:28,480
but more importantly

2296
01:13:32,149 --> 01:13:30,640
my effort to try to digitize and

2297
01:13:32,950 --> 01:13:32,159
preserve a lot of the material that i

2298
01:13:35,110 --> 01:13:32,960
had

2299
01:13:36,310 --> 01:13:35,120
but through a successive series of

2300
01:13:39,270 --> 01:13:36,320
discussions

2301
01:13:41,189 --> 01:13:39,280
it was decided that uh i would be

2302
01:13:41,990 --> 01:13:41,199
willing to accept the files here my wife

2303
01:13:44,070 --> 01:13:42,000
and i

2304
01:13:46,870 --> 01:13:44,080
here in the research room but it was

2305
01:13:49,270 --> 01:13:46,880
predicated on this that

2306
01:13:51,110 --> 01:13:49,280
post covid hopefully very soon here in

2307
01:13:53,270 --> 01:13:51,120
2021

2308
01:13:54,310 --> 01:13:53,280
we will be having barry greenwood and

2309
01:13:56,390 --> 01:13:54,320
jan aldridge

2310
01:13:58,310 --> 01:13:56,400
flying out to albuquerque for extended

2311
01:14:00,070 --> 01:13:58,320
stays here at my home

2312
01:14:01,750 --> 01:14:00,080
my wife and i and family will be putting

2313
01:14:02,630 --> 01:14:01,760
them up as kind of live-in researcher

2314
01:14:05,350 --> 01:14:02,640
guests

2315
01:14:07,350 --> 01:14:05,360
uh for a week to two weeks at a stretch

2316
01:14:09,350 --> 01:14:07,360
and they will be working here in this

2317
01:14:12,229 --> 01:14:09,360
room at this table behind me

2318
01:14:14,790 --> 01:14:12,239
uh digitizing and scanning as many files

2319
01:14:17,350 --> 01:14:14,800
as they humanly can possibly do

2320
01:14:18,149 --> 01:14:17,360
now this will be a series of visits over

2321
01:14:19,910 --> 01:14:18,159
this year

2322
01:14:21,590 --> 01:14:19,920
and over the next probably two to three

2323
01:14:23,110 --> 01:14:21,600
years with the goal

2324
01:14:25,430 --> 01:14:23,120
of hopefully within two to three years

2325
01:14:27,030 --> 01:14:25,440
of having all of these files scanned

2326
01:14:28,630 --> 01:14:27,040
as i mentioned barry greenwood's done a

2327
01:14:30,630 --> 01:14:28,640
wonderful job he estimates he's done

2328
01:14:31,510 --> 01:14:30,640
between 20 30 percent of the files

2329
01:14:33,910 --> 01:14:31,520
already

2330
01:14:35,510 --> 01:14:33,920
but just to give you some context these

2331
01:14:36,870 --> 01:14:35,520
files literally stretch from the

2332
01:14:38,070 --> 01:14:36,880
beginning of the drawer all the way to

2333
01:14:40,470 --> 01:14:38,080
the back

2334
01:14:41,990 --> 01:14:40,480
i can barely get my hand in to pull out

2335
01:14:45,270 --> 01:14:42,000
some of these files and

2336
01:14:47,430 --> 01:14:45,280
again we call them the kufos files but

2337
01:14:49,110 --> 01:14:47,440
that's really an umbrella term these are

2338
01:14:52,950 --> 01:14:49,120
also donald kehoe's

2339
01:14:56,149 --> 01:14:52,960
nycap ufo files going back to the 1950s

2340
01:14:56,790 --> 01:14:56,159
and even earlier another group which was

2341
01:14:58,630 --> 01:14:56,800
extremely

2342
01:15:00,390 --> 01:14:58,640
uh pivotal in the early years of

2343
01:15:01,189 --> 01:15:00,400
civilian ufo research in the united

2344
01:15:04,390 --> 01:15:01,199
states

2345
01:15:05,750 --> 01:15:04,400
is csi new york civilian saucer

2346
01:15:07,590 --> 01:15:05,760
intelligence new york

2347
01:15:09,910 --> 01:15:07,600
ted bloacher and many other early

2348
01:15:10,390 --> 01:15:09,920
researchers amassed a considerable

2349
01:15:13,430 --> 01:15:10,400
amount

2350
01:15:14,950 --> 01:15:13,440
of civilian ufo files and in addition to

2351
01:15:15,830 --> 01:15:14,960
this we have a number of australian

2352
01:15:17,910 --> 01:15:15,840
cases

2353
01:15:18,950 --> 01:15:17,920
and as i mentioned earlier the original

2354
01:15:21,189 --> 01:15:18,960
project blue book

2355
01:15:23,270 --> 01:15:21,199
material that heinek took with him

2356
01:15:24,550 --> 01:15:23,280
what's interesting about best this ryan

2357
01:15:26,229 --> 01:15:24,560
and if you were drooling before you're

2358
01:15:28,310 --> 01:15:26,239
going to drool even more now

2359
01:15:30,390 --> 01:15:28,320
uh what's interesting is as you look

2360
01:15:33,350 --> 01:15:30,400
through hynix blue book files

2361
01:15:35,030 --> 01:15:33,360
he made a habit of crossing things out

2362
01:15:38,149 --> 01:15:35,040
and making notations in red

2363
01:15:39,990 --> 01:15:38,159
felt marker on a number of these

2364
01:15:42,070 --> 01:15:40,000
where blue book describes something as

2365
01:15:43,750 --> 01:15:42,080
ball lightning he would cross it out

2366
01:15:44,149 --> 01:15:43,760
with a red line and then right next to

2367
01:15:45,910 --> 01:15:44,159
it

2368
01:15:47,910 --> 01:15:45,920
unidentified and then would make some

2369
01:15:49,910 --> 01:15:47,920
marginalia or notation

2370
01:15:51,510 --> 01:15:49,920
you know did not follow through as they

2371
01:15:52,709 --> 01:15:51,520
should or should have been investigated

2372
01:15:54,630 --> 01:15:52,719
more thoroughly

2373
01:15:56,630 --> 01:15:54,640
so what's interesting is after all these

2374
01:15:58,709 --> 01:15:56,640
years not only do the files give us

2375
01:16:01,669 --> 01:15:58,719
information in the form of data

2376
01:16:03,590 --> 01:16:01,679
in the form of ufo case files it we get

2377
01:16:05,590 --> 01:16:03,600
insights into what heinek was thinking

2378
01:16:07,189 --> 01:16:05,600
in some cases with regard to the case

2379
01:16:08,870 --> 01:16:07,199
and with regard to blue books

2380
01:16:10,790 --> 01:16:08,880
approach and the way that they

2381
01:16:11,750 --> 01:16:10,800
investigated or more often than not did

2382
01:16:14,790 --> 01:16:11,760
not investigate

2383
01:16:16,390 --> 01:16:14,800
these cases and then lastly

2384
01:16:18,070 --> 01:16:16,400
i'd like to mention the fact that in

2385
01:16:19,750 --> 01:16:18,080
addition to these files

2386
01:16:21,189 --> 01:16:19,760
i have an entire file cabinet of

2387
01:16:24,709 --> 01:16:21,199
microfilm that i received

2388
01:16:28,149 --> 01:16:24,719
from jan aldridge and he has sent me

2389
01:16:29,990 --> 01:16:28,159
extensive uh reels of microfilm

2390
01:16:31,270 --> 01:16:30,000
and i have a machine right here i don't

2391
01:16:32,790 --> 01:16:31,280
know if you can see it on the camera for

2392
01:16:35,110 --> 01:16:32,800
those that are watching this

2393
01:16:36,630 --> 01:16:35,120
this was donated through a benefactor of

2394
01:16:37,110 --> 01:16:36,640
my research this is a five thousand

2395
01:16:40,070 --> 01:16:37,120
dollar

2396
01:16:42,149 --> 01:16:40,080
microfilm digitization machine and we're

2397
01:16:44,149 --> 01:16:42,159
starting the slow process of digitizing

2398
01:16:46,070 --> 01:16:44,159
all of these microfilms as well

2399
01:16:48,229 --> 01:16:46,080
to make accessible to the general public

2400
01:16:49,030 --> 01:16:48,239
in the next two to three years and some

2401
01:16:51,590 --> 01:16:49,040
of this has

2402
01:16:53,430 --> 01:16:51,600
per jan aldridge who's the leading ufo

2403
01:16:56,070 --> 01:16:53,440
historian in the united states

2404
01:16:57,669 --> 01:16:56,080
uh he said the general public the ufo

2405
01:16:59,990 --> 01:16:57,679
community has not seen some of this

2406
01:17:02,790 --> 01:17:00,000
historical material that's on these

2407
01:17:04,550 --> 01:17:02,800
so we're really excited to preserve the

2408
01:17:05,669 --> 01:17:04,560
material god forbid if anything happens

2409
01:17:07,430 --> 01:17:05,679
to the originals

2410
01:17:08,790 --> 01:17:07,440
but the ultimate goal of making it

2411
01:17:11,110 --> 01:17:08,800
accessible

2412
01:17:12,390 --> 01:17:11,120
now i always say short term you want to

2413
01:17:13,590 --> 01:17:12,400
see the files you got to come to

2414
01:17:15,110 --> 01:17:13,600
albuquerque i know that's cost

2415
01:17:16,149 --> 01:17:15,120
prohibitive and time prohibitive for

2416
01:17:19,189 --> 01:17:16,159
many people

2417
01:17:22,310 --> 01:17:19,199
however because the files which resided

2418
01:17:24,709 --> 01:17:22,320
in chicago since 1973

2419
01:17:27,030 --> 01:17:24,719
are now here in albuquerque for those in

2420
01:17:29,990 --> 01:17:27,040
arizona new mexico california

2421
01:17:31,110 --> 01:17:30,000
utah from this portion of the country

2422
01:17:34,149 --> 01:17:31,120
it's now maybe

2423
01:17:35,669 --> 01:17:34,159
more readily accessible and so for those

2424
01:17:36,950 --> 01:17:35,679
serious researchers that want to come

2425
01:17:39,189 --> 01:17:36,960
and do research

2426
01:17:40,870 --> 01:17:39,199
prior to receiving these files i've had

2427
01:17:41,430 --> 01:17:40,880
a lot of foot traffic through here from

2428
01:17:43,990 --> 01:17:41,440
local

2429
01:17:45,910 --> 01:17:44,000
regional and national ufo researchers

2430
01:17:48,950 --> 01:17:45,920
that have come to do research

2431
01:17:51,030 --> 01:17:48,960
now per mark rodinger we have here the

2432
01:17:52,390 --> 01:17:51,040
single largest collection of ufo case

2433
01:17:55,830 --> 01:17:52,400
files in the world

2434
01:17:57,110 --> 01:17:55,840
so short term i i know it may be an

2435
01:17:58,950 --> 01:17:57,120
inconvenience for many if you want to

2436
01:18:00,870 --> 01:17:58,960
come you may you can schedule time to

2437
01:18:03,110 --> 01:18:00,880
come and do research here

2438
01:18:05,030 --> 01:18:03,120
but we ultimately want to not tease you

2439
01:18:06,310 --> 01:18:05,040
with this information but rather

2440
01:18:08,390 --> 01:18:06,320
diligently work towards this

2441
01:18:09,830 --> 01:18:08,400
digitization effort to scan it all and

2442
01:18:11,189 --> 01:18:09,840
then we'll get it on a server we'll get

2443
01:18:12,709 --> 01:18:11,199
it on a website

2444
01:18:14,790 --> 01:18:12,719
to where the worldwide community will

2445
01:18:15,270 --> 01:18:14,800
have access to this rare body of ufo

2446
01:18:17,590 --> 01:18:15,280
data

2447
01:18:19,110 --> 01:18:17,600
and so to me in that sense it's one of

2448
01:18:20,950 --> 01:18:19,120
the most important projects that we can

2449
01:18:23,910 --> 01:18:20,960
be involved with right now

2450
01:18:25,030 --> 01:18:23,920
oh absolutely i mean just digitizing

2451
01:18:27,430 --> 01:18:25,040
anything nowadays

2452
01:18:28,790 --> 01:18:27,440
is essential we know we know that i mean

2453
01:18:31,430 --> 01:18:28,800
we live in an age where

2454
01:18:32,070 --> 01:18:31,440
everything is in the cloud and on the

2455
01:18:34,390 --> 01:18:32,080
computer

2456
01:18:35,189 --> 01:18:34,400
so the fact that these things still

2457
01:18:37,990 --> 01:18:35,199
exist

2458
01:18:39,669 --> 01:18:38,000
first and foremost thank god thank god

2459
01:18:41,750 --> 01:18:39,679
you were able to get your hands on them

2460
01:18:43,110 --> 01:18:41,760
and they went to someone who cares

2461
01:18:45,990 --> 01:18:43,120
enough to

2462
01:18:46,630 --> 01:18:46,000
to give that to the public to make it

2463
01:18:49,830 --> 01:18:46,640
available

2464
01:18:51,110 --> 01:18:49,840
so and again it gets back to what i said

2465
01:18:52,550 --> 01:18:51,120
you know it doesn't matter what we

2466
01:18:54,470 --> 01:18:52,560
believe it's rather what the data

2467
01:18:56,470 --> 01:18:54,480
reflects well here's the data

2468
01:18:58,149 --> 01:18:56,480
each one of these cases is a data set

2469
01:18:59,189 --> 01:18:58,159
and as i alluded to with the triangular

2470
01:19:01,510 --> 01:18:59,199
ufos

2471
01:19:02,229 --> 01:19:01,520
i already had amassed some cases that i

2472
01:19:05,110 --> 01:19:02,239
was looking at

2473
01:19:07,189 --> 01:19:05,120
showing patterns these additional data

2474
01:19:08,070 --> 01:19:07,199
sets have just reinforced that profile

2475
01:19:10,870 --> 01:19:08,080
those characteristics

2476
01:19:13,510 --> 01:19:10,880
that i've already outlined so the more

2477
01:19:15,189 --> 01:19:13,520
data we have the more data sets we have

2478
01:19:17,270 --> 01:19:15,199
and i've always said this in the absence

2479
01:19:18,950 --> 01:19:17,280
of physical evidence

2480
01:19:20,709 --> 01:19:18,960
this is the best evidence we have right

2481
01:19:23,350 --> 01:19:20,719
here

2482
01:19:23,830 --> 01:19:23,360
absolutely absolutely i love that and

2483
01:19:26,550 --> 01:19:23,840
and it's

2484
01:19:27,510 --> 01:19:26,560
again it's reinforcing the patterns that

2485
01:19:29,830 --> 01:19:27,520
you found

2486
01:19:30,870 --> 01:19:29,840
in your own personal research so i think

2487
01:19:33,030 --> 01:19:30,880
that is just

2488
01:19:34,950 --> 01:19:33,040
that's you can't get any better than

2489
01:19:36,630 --> 01:19:34,960
that and ryan your audience or

2490
01:19:38,149 --> 01:19:36,640
researchers out there that

2491
01:19:39,669 --> 01:19:38,159
eventually come here to look at the

2492
01:19:42,709 --> 01:19:39,679
files whether physically or

2493
01:19:44,870 --> 01:19:42,719
eventually digitally what other

2494
01:19:46,229 --> 01:19:44,880
patterns are going to emerge you know

2495
01:19:47,590 --> 01:19:46,239
and everyone comes at this from a

2496
01:19:49,189 --> 01:19:47,600
different perspective

2497
01:19:51,590 --> 01:19:49,199
i've always said the more eyes and

2498
01:19:54,470 --> 01:19:51,600
brains that we have applied to this data

2499
01:19:56,310 --> 01:19:54,480
here the better off we're going to be

2500
01:19:58,310 --> 01:19:56,320
you know no one is going to cr

2501
01:19:59,910 --> 01:19:58,320
i believe no one person is going to

2502
01:20:01,590 --> 01:19:59,920
crack the lid wide open on this i think

2503
01:20:03,750 --> 01:20:01,600
it's going to be a concerted effort

2504
01:20:05,270 --> 01:20:03,760
by objective researchers that are truly

2505
01:20:07,590 --> 01:20:05,280
looking at the data

2506
01:20:09,270 --> 01:20:07,600
and if i can show a pattern and they

2507
01:20:10,550 --> 01:20:09,280
show a pattern and we see that like a

2508
01:20:12,550 --> 01:20:10,560
venn diagram

2509
01:20:14,709 --> 01:20:12,560
guess what in certain circumstances

2510
01:20:16,390 --> 01:20:14,719
those patterns overlap

2511
01:20:18,070 --> 01:20:16,400
it's those baby steps there's not going

2512
01:20:19,750 --> 01:20:18,080
to be a eureka moment i don't believe

2513
01:20:23,030 --> 01:20:19,760
with regard to ufo research

2514
01:20:25,669 --> 01:20:23,040
it's the laborious tedious boring

2515
01:20:27,830 --> 01:20:25,679
i'm sorry to say in some cases research

2516
01:20:28,950 --> 01:20:27,840
of sifting through these reports to find

2517
01:20:30,790 --> 01:20:28,960
those patterns

2518
01:20:32,629 --> 01:20:30,800
that i think may lead to at least maybe

2519
01:20:33,990 --> 01:20:32,639
a glimmer even if we can crack that door

2520
01:20:37,110 --> 01:20:34,000
open slightly

2521
01:20:38,470 --> 01:20:37,120
it might open it up to other avenues or

2522
01:20:40,550 --> 01:20:38,480
other questions

2523
01:20:42,470 --> 01:20:40,560
you know i sometimes feel like we're so

2524
01:20:44,629 --> 01:20:42,480
dumb regarding the ufo subject we don't

2525
01:20:47,590 --> 01:20:44,639
even know the right questions to asks

2526
01:20:49,189 --> 01:20:47,600
you know to ask so maybe if we start

2527
01:20:50,709 --> 01:20:49,199
putting these patterns together

2528
01:20:52,390 --> 01:20:50,719
we might be able to start asking those

2529
01:20:55,990 --> 01:20:52,400
right questions

2530
01:20:58,709 --> 01:20:56,000
yeah exactly well i mean i guess

2531
01:21:00,870 --> 01:20:58,719
they bringing things to the most current

2532
01:21:03,910 --> 01:21:00,880
as we can just a few days ago

2533
01:21:06,310 --> 01:21:03,920
uh there was a ufo case

2534
01:21:07,270 --> 01:21:06,320
um pretty much above the skies in your

2535
01:21:09,750 --> 01:21:07,280
neck of the woods

2536
01:21:11,350 --> 01:21:09,760
in new mexico um are you familiar with

2537
01:21:14,229 --> 01:21:11,360
this case and um

2538
01:21:15,910 --> 01:21:14,239
yeah what do you make of it this uh yeah

2539
01:21:17,510 --> 01:21:15,920
tell us a little about this if you can

2540
01:21:19,270 --> 01:21:17,520
american airlines flight going from

2541
01:21:21,030 --> 01:21:19,280
cincinnati to uh phoenix

2542
01:21:22,709 --> 01:21:21,040
flying over new mexico northeast corner

2543
01:21:24,149 --> 01:21:22,719
of new mexico which is extremely rural

2544
01:21:25,350 --> 01:21:24,159
for those that aren't familiar with with

2545
01:21:28,229 --> 01:21:25,360
new mexico

2546
01:21:29,110 --> 01:21:28,239
um they encountered an unidentified

2547
01:21:30,870 --> 01:21:29,120
flying object

2548
01:21:32,629 --> 01:21:30,880
something that looked like a cruise

2549
01:21:34,310 --> 01:21:32,639
missile uh

2550
01:21:35,990 --> 01:21:34,320
i don't know if it nearly collided with

2551
01:21:37,350 --> 01:21:36,000
the plane but it was certainly enough to

2552
01:21:38,070 --> 01:21:37,360
really cause some excitement on the part

2553
01:21:41,590 --> 01:21:38,080
of the pilot

2554
01:21:42,629 --> 01:21:41,600
and co-pilot um and the audio was

2555
01:21:45,750 --> 01:21:42,639
actually recorded

2556
01:21:54,629 --> 01:21:45,760
by an aviation enthusiast who

2557
01:21:58,470 --> 01:21:56,709
have any targets up here we just had

2558
01:21:59,350 --> 01:21:58,480
something go right over the top of us

2559
01:22:01,189 --> 01:21:59,360
that

2560
01:22:03,189 --> 01:22:01,199
i hate to say this looked like a long

2561
01:22:05,030 --> 01:22:03,199
cylindrical object it almost looked like

2562
01:22:06,709 --> 01:22:05,040
a cruise missile type of thing moving

2563
01:22:07,669 --> 01:22:06,719
really fast that went right over the top

2564
01:22:09,430 --> 01:22:07,679
of them

2565
01:22:10,950 --> 01:22:09,440
i heard about it just like everyone else

2566
01:22:11,510 --> 01:22:10,960
and unfortunately at this point i know

2567
01:22:13,669 --> 01:22:11,520
nothing

2568
01:22:14,870 --> 01:22:13,679
more than anyone else who's read the

2569
01:22:17,189 --> 01:22:14,880
internet stories

2570
01:22:18,629 --> 01:22:17,199
but that occurred on the 21st which was

2571
01:22:21,350 --> 01:22:18,639
i believe sunday

2572
01:22:23,350 --> 01:22:21,360
and uh the subsequent day on monday i

2573
01:22:26,390 --> 01:22:23,360
filed a foyer request with the faa

2574
01:22:28,229 --> 01:22:26,400
to try to secure any and all recordings

2575
01:22:29,669 --> 01:22:28,239
uh because it may not that might not be

2576
01:22:31,030 --> 01:22:29,679
the only recording that little clip that

2577
01:22:33,350 --> 01:22:31,040
we have on the internet

2578
01:22:35,430 --> 01:22:33,360
um but i felt you know duty bound to

2579
01:22:37,270 --> 01:22:35,440
file a foia request with the faa

2580
01:22:38,629 --> 01:22:37,280
to secure any and all recordings

2581
01:22:40,390 --> 01:22:38,639
associated with this event as well as

2582
01:22:41,510 --> 01:22:40,400
any written documentation that we might

2583
01:22:42,950 --> 01:22:41,520
have so

2584
01:22:44,470 --> 01:22:42,960
that was just submitted on monday

2585
01:22:45,590 --> 01:22:44,480
obviously you know here it's only

2586
01:22:47,189 --> 01:22:45,600
thursday so

2587
01:22:48,950 --> 01:22:47,199
you know let's give it some time and see

2588
01:22:51,110 --> 01:22:48,960
if i can get that information and see

2589
01:22:53,430 --> 01:22:51,120
you know if additional insights come out

2590
01:22:55,510 --> 01:22:53,440
but it was interesting there's a local

2591
01:22:57,830 --> 01:22:55,520
albuquerque radio host that i do

2592
01:22:59,590 --> 01:22:57,840
live shows with and he's very interested

2593
01:22:59,990 --> 01:22:59,600
in the ufo subject and i emailed it to

2594
01:23:01,750 --> 01:23:00,000
him

2595
01:23:03,910 --> 01:23:01,760
i believe on monday after i'd filed my

2596
01:23:06,070 --> 01:23:03,920
foyer request and he called me

2597
01:23:07,510 --> 01:23:06,080
immediately and he was all excited

2598
01:23:09,990 --> 01:23:07,520
and he made the comment which i thought

2599
01:23:12,149 --> 01:23:10,000
was a very very astute observation

2600
01:23:13,990 --> 01:23:12,159
he goes this is why i have you on my

2601
01:23:14,790 --> 01:23:14,000
show he goes i'm trying to convey to

2602
01:23:16,709 --> 01:23:14,800
people

2603
01:23:17,990 --> 01:23:16,719
this i won't repeat the expletive he

2604
01:23:20,550 --> 01:23:18,000
used he goes this

2605
01:23:22,629 --> 01:23:20,560
blank isn't just obscure stuff that

2606
01:23:24,870 --> 01:23:22,639
happened in roswell in 1947

2607
01:23:26,310 --> 01:23:24,880
this stuff is ongoing and i thought that

2608
01:23:27,189 --> 01:23:26,320
was a really interesting valid point

2609
01:23:31,189 --> 01:23:27,199
that he brought up

2610
01:23:33,270 --> 01:23:31,199
and it does it demonstrates pilots

2611
01:23:34,870 --> 01:23:33,280
individuals civilians military

2612
01:23:38,310 --> 01:23:34,880
individuals are still seeing

2613
01:23:40,310 --> 01:23:38,320
unidentified objects ufos uaps call them

2614
01:23:43,189 --> 01:23:40,320
what they will

2615
01:23:45,030 --> 01:23:43,199
it continues and it's being cited by

2616
01:23:46,149 --> 01:23:45,040
credible witnesses the skeptics can say

2617
01:23:47,990 --> 01:23:46,159
all they want

2618
01:23:50,470 --> 01:23:48,000
and they the interesting thing about

2619
01:23:52,629 --> 01:23:50,480
skeptics i i don't often talk about this

2620
01:23:53,830 --> 01:23:52,639
is the statements that they make are

2621
01:23:56,149 --> 01:23:53,840
true

2622
01:23:58,149 --> 01:23:56,159
you know humans have bad perception well

2623
01:23:59,270 --> 01:23:58,159
that's true relative to a dog or to

2624
01:24:01,590 --> 01:23:59,280
other animals

2625
01:24:03,510 --> 01:24:01,600
um you know and that memory can be

2626
01:24:05,110 --> 01:24:03,520
fallible you know they use all of these

2627
01:24:07,110 --> 01:24:05,120
things which are true

2628
01:24:08,390 --> 01:24:07,120
but then they they generalize them to a

2629
01:24:10,950 --> 01:24:08,400
ridiculous degree

2630
01:24:12,070 --> 01:24:10,960
you know it's one thing to say ryan i'm

2631
01:24:14,149 --> 01:24:12,080
a bad observer

2632
01:24:15,669 --> 01:24:14,159
but if i told you i saw a red volkswagen

2633
01:24:16,550 --> 01:24:15,679
on the street right before i came on the

2634
01:24:17,750 --> 01:24:16,560
show

2635
01:24:19,990 --> 01:24:17,760
it's not to the extent that i

2636
01:24:21,910 --> 01:24:20,000
hallucinated and saw a red volkswagen i

2637
01:24:23,830 --> 01:24:21,920
probably saw a red volkswagen

2638
01:24:25,750 --> 01:24:23,840
but they take these things that are true

2639
01:24:27,910 --> 01:24:25,760
and magnify them and generalize them to

2640
01:24:30,149 --> 01:24:27,920
ridiculous degrees

2641
01:24:32,470 --> 01:24:30,159
at the end of the day you know as long

2642
01:24:34,870 --> 01:24:32,480
as reports are coming in

2643
01:24:36,790 --> 01:24:34,880
i think we should look at them again

2644
01:24:38,470 --> 01:24:36,800
knowing what we do know that

2645
01:24:40,550 --> 01:24:38,480
it's not just visual perception that

2646
01:24:41,750 --> 01:24:40,560
we're relying on it's radar confirmation

2647
01:24:43,830 --> 01:24:41,760
photographs

2648
01:24:45,750 --> 01:24:43,840
and other types of objective data that

2649
01:24:48,149 --> 01:24:45,760
we could look at and

2650
01:24:49,110 --> 01:24:48,159
i've often stated that i'm not a ufo

2651
01:24:51,030 --> 01:24:49,120
believer

2652
01:24:52,709 --> 01:24:51,040
i don't believe every story that comes

2653
01:24:54,070 --> 01:24:52,719
along quite the contrary i'm very

2654
01:24:56,629 --> 01:24:54,080
skeptical i like to vet

2655
01:24:57,990 --> 01:24:56,639
you know as many cases and reports as

2656
01:25:00,629 --> 01:24:58,000
best i can

2657
01:25:01,750 --> 01:25:00,639
um and it's like when you look at this

2658
01:25:03,910 --> 01:25:01,760
amount of data

2659
01:25:05,669 --> 01:25:03,920
just for an example you know we're

2660
01:25:07,270 --> 01:25:05,679
looking at thousands if not tens of

2661
01:25:09,110 --> 01:25:07,280
thousands of case files just sitting

2662
01:25:11,750 --> 01:25:09,120
right here next to me

2663
01:25:14,070 --> 01:25:11,760
it's not that i believe these reports

2664
01:25:16,629 --> 01:25:14,080
but how can you summarily discount

2665
01:25:17,350 --> 01:25:16,639
tens of thousands of eyewitnesses that's

2666
01:25:19,510 --> 01:25:17,360
what i say

2667
01:25:21,270 --> 01:25:19,520
don't believe it but you can't

2668
01:25:22,550 --> 01:25:21,280
arbitrarily disbelieve it all

2669
01:25:24,229 --> 01:25:22,560
and if you do i think you're being

2670
01:25:25,669 --> 01:25:24,239
intellectually dishonest with yourself

2671
01:25:29,430 --> 01:25:25,679
and others

2672
01:25:31,110 --> 01:25:29,440
absolutely again facts do not care

2673
01:25:32,870 --> 01:25:31,120
about your feelings that's what i always

2674
01:25:34,550 --> 01:25:32,880
tell people so no

2675
01:25:36,310 --> 01:25:34,560
you're right man you're so right and

2676
01:25:38,709 --> 01:25:36,320
with this current case i mean

2677
01:25:39,990 --> 01:25:38,719
again i knew i could count on you or or

2678
01:25:41,990 --> 01:25:40,000
john greenwald to be

2679
01:25:43,270 --> 01:25:42,000
all over this thing the minute it

2680
01:25:45,750 --> 01:25:43,280
happens well john

2681
01:25:47,750 --> 01:25:45,760
john's the master employees i i vow to

2682
01:25:49,270 --> 01:25:47,760
john that's his area but i

2683
01:25:51,189 --> 01:25:49,280
i just figured since i was here in new

2684
01:25:53,590 --> 01:25:51,199
mexico and since i knew local media

2685
01:25:56,390 --> 01:25:53,600
would be reaching out and talking to me

2686
01:25:58,229 --> 01:25:56,400
i felt i i would be remiss if i didn't

2687
01:26:00,870 --> 01:25:58,239
file a foia request you know it's like

2688
01:26:02,390 --> 01:26:00,880
you're in new mexico this just happened

2689
01:26:03,030 --> 01:26:02,400
and you're not doing anything about it

2690
01:26:04,390 --> 01:26:03,040
so

2691
01:26:06,229 --> 01:26:04,400
you know the best i can do is file a

2692
01:26:08,310 --> 01:26:06,239
foia request and hope for the best

2693
01:26:10,470 --> 01:26:08,320
all right dave we've discussed

2694
01:26:11,270 --> 01:26:10,480
everything i really wanted to dive into

2695
01:26:13,910 --> 01:26:11,280
personally

2696
01:26:15,669 --> 01:26:13,920
at the ufo researcher but now i've got

2697
01:26:18,070 --> 01:26:15,679
probably some of the most

2698
01:26:19,270 --> 01:26:18,080
amazing listener questions i've ever

2699
01:26:21,990 --> 01:26:19,280
gotten for a guest

2700
01:26:22,310 --> 01:26:22,000
so let's just let's run through these

2701
01:26:25,510 --> 01:26:22,320
man

2702
01:26:28,709 --> 01:26:25,520
um our first one comes from teddy zee

2703
01:26:30,950 --> 01:26:28,719
on patreon and he asks david

2704
01:26:31,910 --> 01:26:30,960
what is the best advice for someone that

2705
01:26:34,830 --> 01:26:31,920
is just getting

2706
01:26:36,149 --> 01:26:34,840
in to ufo research teddy's new to this

2707
01:26:38,709 --> 01:26:36,159
whole

2708
01:26:40,149 --> 01:26:38,719
thing that i do and uh what was the

2709
01:26:42,390 --> 01:26:40,159
craziest story

2710
01:26:43,910 --> 01:26:42,400
that you've heard from someone since you

2711
01:26:47,350 --> 01:26:43,920
started researching

2712
01:26:49,350 --> 01:26:47,360
sure no great questions uh first teddy

2713
01:26:51,350 --> 01:26:49,360
my heart goes out to you because i i

2714
01:26:52,950 --> 01:26:51,360
always feel sympathetic for someone

2715
01:26:55,350 --> 01:26:52,960
coming into this field now because

2716
01:26:58,390 --> 01:26:55,360
there's so much disinformation

2717
01:27:00,790 --> 01:26:58,400
misinformation and i hate to say it

2718
01:27:02,950 --> 01:27:00,800
but it has to be called out you know

2719
01:27:03,350 --> 01:27:02,960
charlatans and con artists and people

2720
01:27:05,910 --> 01:27:03,360
that

2721
01:27:06,709 --> 01:27:05,920
just are spouting conspiracy tales just

2722
01:27:08,870 --> 01:27:06,719
to spout

2723
01:27:10,390 --> 01:27:08,880
interesting tantalizing stories because

2724
01:27:13,590 --> 01:27:10,400
it helps them make money or

2725
01:27:15,990 --> 01:27:13,600
it generates book sales um you know

2726
01:27:17,750 --> 01:27:16,000
i would recommend that uh you know feel

2727
01:27:19,110 --> 01:27:17,760
free to reach out to me i can try to

2728
01:27:20,790 --> 01:27:19,120
steer you towards what i feel are

2729
01:27:22,629 --> 01:27:20,800
credible researchers today

2730
01:27:24,310 --> 01:27:22,639
i'd be happy to give you some guidance

2731
01:27:25,990 --> 01:27:24,320
in that respect but

2732
01:27:27,990 --> 01:27:26,000
the only thing i can recommend as kind

2733
01:27:31,350 --> 01:27:28,000
of a general guiding principle

2734
01:27:34,390 --> 01:27:31,360
don't take anybody's word for granted

2735
01:27:36,149 --> 01:27:34,400
including mine i always cite my sources

2736
01:27:37,750 --> 01:27:36,159
so people can go through and vet

2737
01:27:39,750 --> 01:27:37,760
and verify what i'm telling you is

2738
01:27:42,390 --> 01:27:39,760
accurate or at least okay

2739
01:27:43,910 --> 01:27:42,400
marlar quoted an appropriate source yes

2740
01:27:46,790 --> 01:27:43,920
i found it myself

2741
01:27:47,510 --> 01:27:46,800
so i would recomm recommend don't take

2742
01:27:49,750 --> 01:27:47,520
anybody

2743
01:27:50,950 --> 01:27:49,760
as offering the gospel truth try to

2744
01:27:52,870 --> 01:27:50,960
verify

2745
01:27:54,070 --> 01:27:52,880
at all times what information is being

2746
01:27:56,070 --> 01:27:54,080
conveyed

2747
01:27:57,270 --> 01:27:56,080
so that would probably be a general rule

2748
01:27:59,990 --> 01:27:57,280
as far as one of the most

2749
01:28:02,310 --> 01:28:00,000
bizarre reports i ever had there was a

2750
01:28:04,790 --> 01:28:02,320
case in saint louis missouri

2751
01:28:05,750 --> 01:28:04,800
and it was a couple it was a mother and

2752
01:28:08,390 --> 01:28:05,760
a daughter

2753
01:28:10,550 --> 01:28:08,400
and uh they lived very close to downtown

2754
01:28:14,070 --> 01:28:10,560
saint louis kind of south city

2755
01:28:16,149 --> 01:28:14,080
and they had called in to report

2756
01:28:17,110 --> 01:28:16,159
that they were having these repeated ufo

2757
01:28:18,550 --> 01:28:17,120
sightings

2758
01:28:19,990 --> 01:28:18,560
and and i don't think i've ever talked

2759
01:28:21,510 --> 01:28:20,000
about this one publicly so that's a

2760
01:28:24,470 --> 01:28:21,520
great question you asked

2761
01:28:25,270 --> 01:28:24,480
um myself and another mufon investigator

2762
01:28:27,830 --> 01:28:25,280
went there

2763
01:28:29,750 --> 01:28:27,840
and uh from missouri and we interviewed

2764
01:28:32,550 --> 01:28:29,760
the two ladies in their home

2765
01:28:35,030 --> 01:28:32,560
and they had some interesting stories

2766
01:28:36,870 --> 01:28:35,040
that were suggestive possibly of missing

2767
01:28:38,310 --> 01:28:36,880
time abduction

2768
01:28:40,229 --> 01:28:38,320
but they had reported having all of

2769
01:28:43,189 --> 01:28:40,239
these sightings so

2770
01:28:44,870 --> 01:28:43,199
uh at one point when we kind of had

2771
01:28:45,830 --> 01:28:44,880
wrapped up the initial series of

2772
01:28:47,990 --> 01:28:45,840
interviewing

2773
01:28:50,149 --> 01:28:48,000
uh i had asked well could we go outside

2774
01:28:50,629 --> 01:28:50,159
you had stated that you had seen an area

2775
01:28:53,430 --> 01:28:50,639
where

2776
01:28:54,550 --> 01:28:53,440
this 30-foot object had sat down and

2777
01:28:57,189 --> 01:28:54,560
kind of pressed down

2778
01:28:57,830 --> 01:28:57,199
the flowers in your garden and there's

2779
01:28:59,510 --> 01:28:57,840
like sure

2780
01:29:01,270 --> 01:28:59,520
we'll go out back and so they take us

2781
01:29:03,270 --> 01:29:01,280
out to the back of the house and then

2782
01:29:05,189 --> 01:29:03,280
much like south st louis the homes are

2783
01:29:06,950 --> 01:29:05,199
very close together with just very small

2784
01:29:08,709 --> 01:29:06,960
spaces in between

2785
01:29:10,070 --> 01:29:08,719
and they said it's actually the flower

2786
01:29:13,910 --> 01:29:10,080
bed on the side of the house

2787
01:29:16,149 --> 01:29:13,920
where it sat down and i walk over there

2788
01:29:18,390 --> 01:29:16,159
and i immediately notice first off

2789
01:29:21,430 --> 01:29:18,400
there's only probably at best

2790
01:29:22,950 --> 01:29:21,440
eight to ten feet between their house

2791
01:29:26,070 --> 01:29:22,960
and the neighbor's house

2792
01:29:27,830 --> 01:29:26,080
there's a small patch about four foot by

2793
01:29:29,270 --> 01:29:27,840
four foot of flowers

2794
01:29:31,030 --> 01:29:29,280
they were like tulips or something like

2795
01:29:33,669 --> 01:29:31,040
that i can't remember now

2796
01:29:35,750 --> 01:29:33,679
and sure enough they were pressed down

2797
01:29:38,149 --> 01:29:35,760
but we're talking a small area

2798
01:29:38,870 --> 01:29:38,159
no more than four foot by four foot and

2799
01:29:40,550 --> 01:29:38,880
then

2800
01:29:41,750 --> 01:29:40,560
it was interesting as i'm talking to

2801
01:29:43,189 --> 01:29:41,760
them and i'm saying so you said the

2802
01:29:45,270 --> 01:29:43,199
object was about 30 feet

2803
01:29:46,790 --> 01:29:45,280
in diameter oh yeah it was like 30 feet

2804
01:29:49,830 --> 01:29:46,800
and this is where it sat down

2805
01:29:51,189 --> 01:29:49,840
immediately there's issues with the

2806
01:29:52,470 --> 01:29:51,199
narrative that they're telling me based

2807
01:29:55,110 --> 01:29:52,480
on what i'm seeing

2808
01:29:56,550 --> 01:29:55,120
but then i notice just about six feet

2809
01:29:57,830 --> 01:29:56,560
further down the house was another

2810
01:29:59,990 --> 01:29:57,840
flower bed

2811
01:30:02,070 --> 01:30:00,000
and i noticed that the flowers there

2812
01:30:04,870 --> 01:30:02,080
were equally pressed down

2813
01:30:05,270 --> 01:30:04,880
what i also noticed was it was either

2814
01:30:08,310 --> 01:30:05,280
there

2815
01:30:09,110 --> 01:30:08,320
or a neighbor's cat was laying on the

2816
01:30:11,189 --> 01:30:09,120
flowers

2817
01:30:13,110 --> 01:30:11,199
that had pressed them down it didn't

2818
01:30:14,390 --> 01:30:13,120
take a rocket scientist to establish

2819
01:30:15,990 --> 01:30:14,400
that one

2820
01:30:18,870 --> 01:30:16,000
what they're telling me size-wise

2821
01:30:21,189 --> 01:30:18,880
doesn't fit the area in question and two

2822
01:30:23,590 --> 01:30:21,199
if that flower bed is the same type of

2823
01:30:25,510 --> 01:30:23,600
flowers and it's smashed down by a cat

2824
01:30:27,350 --> 01:30:25,520
more than likely the cat was responsible

2825
01:30:28,950 --> 01:30:27,360
for smashing this down

2826
01:30:30,470 --> 01:30:28,960
so that was just that was one that i

2827
01:30:31,189 --> 01:30:30,480
always remember is just kind of there

2828
01:30:33,910 --> 01:30:31,199
were other

2829
01:30:34,870 --> 01:30:33,920
incongruities inconsistencies in their

2830
01:30:37,590 --> 01:30:34,880
story

2831
01:30:38,790 --> 01:30:37,600
and i'm not calling these people liars

2832
01:30:40,790 --> 01:30:38,800
but you know a lot of people

2833
01:30:41,830 --> 01:30:40,800
truly believe we get back to that belief

2834
01:30:44,149 --> 01:30:41,840
word ryan

2835
01:30:44,950 --> 01:30:44,159
believe something happened but the

2836
01:30:46,470 --> 01:30:44,960
reality

2837
01:30:48,070 --> 01:30:46,480
may be something different and in this

2838
01:30:51,350 --> 01:30:48,080
case the facts pointed to the fact

2839
01:30:54,390 --> 01:30:51,360
that it just didn't add up right

2840
01:30:57,270 --> 01:30:54,400
and can you imagine dave all those files

2841
01:30:59,110 --> 01:30:57,280
you have in that office what percentage

2842
01:31:02,470 --> 01:30:59,120
of those could be explained by

2843
01:31:03,750 --> 01:31:02,480
a cat oh yeah absolutely in fact i will

2844
01:31:04,470 --> 01:31:03,760
tell you ryan and i'll tell your

2845
01:31:06,149 --> 01:31:04,480
audience

2846
01:31:07,510 --> 01:31:06,159
in just going through these since

2847
01:31:08,629 --> 01:31:07,520
november 3rd which is when they were

2848
01:31:11,430 --> 01:31:08,639
delivered here

2849
01:31:14,070 --> 01:31:11,440
uh i can tell you there are numerous uh

2850
01:31:17,189 --> 01:31:14,080
meteor sightings fireball sightings

2851
01:31:18,470 --> 01:31:17,199
which were called ufos but for all

2852
01:31:20,310 --> 01:31:18,480
intents and purposes

2853
01:31:21,910 --> 01:31:20,320
it was a it was a meteor it was a

2854
01:31:23,430 --> 01:31:21,920
fireball i mean

2855
01:31:25,110 --> 01:31:23,440
there's there was nothing anomalous it

2856
01:31:27,270 --> 01:31:25,120
didn't hover it was just

2857
01:31:29,669 --> 01:31:27,280
a point of light with sparks flying and

2858
01:31:32,470 --> 01:31:29,679
then it disintegrated or exploded

2859
01:31:34,070 --> 01:31:32,480
and there was no non-linear flight where

2860
01:31:36,310 --> 01:31:34,080
it made a right angle

2861
01:31:37,990 --> 01:31:36,320
um so if it looks like a duck quacks

2862
01:31:39,350 --> 01:31:38,000
like a duck it probably is a duck or in

2863
01:31:41,830 --> 01:31:39,360
this case a meteor

2864
01:31:43,189 --> 01:31:41,840
a meteor yeah or a cat laying in a

2865
01:31:44,950 --> 01:31:43,199
flower bed for sure

2866
01:31:46,709 --> 01:31:44,960
um well and i think i think that

2867
01:31:47,669 --> 01:31:46,719
stresses too like we've said so many

2868
01:31:50,629 --> 01:31:47,679
times tonight

2869
01:31:51,270 --> 01:31:50,639
um ufo researchers aren't there to prove

2870
01:31:53,590 --> 01:31:51,280
that

2871
01:31:55,189 --> 01:31:53,600
what people are seeing is alien it's our

2872
01:31:57,510 --> 01:31:55,199
job to do the opposite

2873
01:31:59,030 --> 01:31:57,520
to try to fight every convention

2874
01:32:01,270 --> 01:31:59,040
conventional explanation

2875
01:32:02,470 --> 01:32:01,280
other than that you know so when you're

2876
01:32:04,470 --> 01:32:02,480
left with just

2877
01:32:05,750 --> 01:32:04,480
that option then you've got a true

2878
01:32:06,950 --> 01:32:05,760
unknown and

2879
01:32:08,390 --> 01:32:06,960
i'm glad you brought this up right

2880
01:32:10,629 --> 01:32:08,400
because i it never comes up in

2881
01:32:13,750 --> 01:32:10,639
conversations or in shows like this

2882
01:32:16,550 --> 01:32:13,760
um the fact is again

2883
01:32:17,270 --> 01:32:16,560
skeptics attack ufo believers because

2884
01:32:18,390 --> 01:32:17,280
well they're

2885
01:32:21,910 --> 01:32:18,400
you know they're they're talking about

2886
01:32:25,110 --> 01:32:21,920
ufos and they see a ufo under every rock

2887
01:32:27,910 --> 01:32:25,120
well look myself and other researchers

2888
01:32:29,510 --> 01:32:27,920
don't come on to spend 15 to 20 minutes

2889
01:32:30,550 --> 01:32:29,520
to tell you about a case we investigated

2890
01:32:33,189 --> 01:32:30,560
that turned out to be

2891
01:32:34,790 --> 01:32:33,199
a military refueling operation we're not

2892
01:32:36,790 --> 01:32:34,800
going to waste your time with that

2893
01:32:38,550 --> 01:32:36,800
but even though we don't talk about it

2894
01:32:40,790 --> 01:32:38,560
it needs to be said that the vast

2895
01:32:43,110 --> 01:32:40,800
majority of ufo sightings that we do

2896
01:32:44,550 --> 01:32:43,120
receive like the fireball sightings we

2897
01:32:47,270 --> 01:32:44,560
were just talking about

2898
01:32:49,110 --> 01:32:47,280
um you know are reported it's that 90

2899
01:32:52,390 --> 01:32:49,120
percent noise to that 10

2900
01:32:55,430 --> 01:32:52,400
signal which is genuine ufos but

2901
01:32:56,950 --> 01:32:55,440
you know it's it's boring to talk about

2902
01:32:59,189 --> 01:32:56,960
you know a sighting that turned out to

2903
01:33:01,189 --> 01:32:59,199
be a refueling operation or it's boring

2904
01:33:02,550 --> 01:33:01,199
to talk about you know people

2905
01:33:04,870 --> 01:33:02,560
seeing something else that's just

2906
01:33:06,390 --> 01:33:04,880
prosaic you know we could talk about

2907
01:33:08,229 --> 01:33:06,400
those we probably brian and i would

2908
01:33:10,790 --> 01:33:08,239
probably bore you to tears but

2909
01:33:12,550 --> 01:33:10,800
um you know but we want to talk what we

2910
01:33:14,550 --> 01:33:12,560
focus on what we do talk about on these

2911
01:33:16,550 --> 01:33:14,560
shows what we do talk about on

2912
01:33:18,229 --> 01:33:16,560
television episodes and when we do

2913
01:33:20,310 --> 01:33:18,239
lecture across the country

2914
01:33:22,950 --> 01:33:20,320
are those that have you know passed the

2915
01:33:24,950 --> 01:33:22,960
sniff test if you will it's not military

2916
01:33:27,270 --> 01:33:24,960
it's not natural phenomenon these are

2917
01:33:28,790 --> 01:33:27,280
exhibiting unusual characteristics that

2918
01:33:31,430 --> 01:33:28,800
we need to look at

2919
01:33:33,030 --> 01:33:31,440
not believe but just look at you know

2920
01:33:35,030 --> 01:33:33,040
and again i don't mean to go off on an

2921
01:33:36,870 --> 01:33:35,040
anti-skeptic rant but you know the

2922
01:33:39,669 --> 01:33:36,880
skeptics they always you know

2923
01:33:41,030 --> 01:33:39,679
will dispense opinions and proclamations

2924
01:33:42,070 --> 01:33:41,040
without doing any research on the

2925
01:33:44,470 --> 01:33:42,080
subject

2926
01:33:45,830 --> 01:33:44,480
the january 5th case just an example the

2927
01:33:47,750 --> 01:33:45,840
january 5th case

2928
01:33:50,310 --> 01:33:47,760
uh these police officers went out and

2929
01:33:51,990 --> 01:33:50,320
they saw this triangular ufo

2930
01:33:53,590 --> 01:33:52,000
one of the famous skeptics at the time

2931
01:33:55,110 --> 01:33:53,600
about a year or so later was on a

2932
01:33:57,189 --> 01:33:55,120
documentary and he said well

2933
01:33:58,470 --> 01:33:57,199
these officers went out expecting to see

2934
01:34:00,070 --> 01:33:58,480
a ufo

2935
01:34:01,990 --> 01:34:00,080
none of the officers i interviewed

2936
01:34:04,070 --> 01:34:02,000
believed in ufos prior to this

2937
01:34:06,070 --> 01:34:04,080
some were open to it but none of them

2938
01:34:07,350 --> 01:34:06,080
were quote unquote ufo believers and in

2939
01:34:08,390 --> 01:34:07,360
fact some of them said

2940
01:34:09,750 --> 01:34:08,400
if you would have came in here a year

2941
01:34:12,149 --> 01:34:09,760
ago telling me you were investigating

2942
01:34:14,229 --> 01:34:12,159
ufos i would have said there's the door

2943
01:34:16,070 --> 01:34:14,239
and so but but they make these

2944
01:34:17,350 --> 01:34:16,080
statements like they know the witnesses

2945
01:34:19,030 --> 01:34:17,360
they've been on location they've

2946
01:34:21,510 --> 01:34:19,040
interviewed him but they haven't

2947
01:34:22,790 --> 01:34:21,520
and that's where rightly or wrongly if

2948
01:34:24,790 --> 01:34:22,800
you like the skeptics or you like the

2949
01:34:25,750 --> 01:34:24,800
ufo believers or the researchers i

2950
01:34:27,350 --> 01:34:25,760
should say

2951
01:34:29,910 --> 01:34:27,360
at least the researchers go out and do

2952
01:34:31,430 --> 01:34:29,920
the legwork as opposed to sitting back

2953
01:34:33,510 --> 01:34:31,440
in in their their recliner

2954
01:34:35,910 --> 01:34:33,520
in california or wherever they're at and

2955
01:34:37,669 --> 01:34:35,920
just make proclamations based on nothing

2956
01:34:39,030 --> 01:34:37,679
and they talk about science they say

2957
01:34:41,669 --> 01:34:39,040
they're scientists

2958
01:34:42,950 --> 01:34:41,679
they're the antithesis of science they

2959
01:34:44,709 --> 01:34:42,960
don't collect the data and then

2960
01:34:47,510 --> 01:34:44,719
formulate hypotheses they just

2961
01:34:49,910 --> 01:34:47,520
arbitrarily assign an explanation in

2962
01:34:52,390 --> 01:34:49,920
absence of even looking at the evidence

2963
01:34:53,590 --> 01:34:52,400
exactly it's extremely irresponsible i

2964
01:34:55,830 --> 01:34:53,600
couldn't agree with you more

2965
01:34:57,910 --> 01:34:55,840
um all right here's another one from

2966
01:35:01,189 --> 01:34:57,920
robert mcgee on patreon

2967
01:35:04,470 --> 01:35:01,199
he asks what is the uh the single

2968
01:35:06,870 --> 01:35:04,480
most well documented and proven triangle

2969
01:35:09,109 --> 01:35:06,880
ufo sighting in your opinion david

2970
01:35:12,149 --> 01:35:09,119
anything come to mind

2971
01:35:14,310 --> 01:35:12,159
that's a really hard one

2972
01:35:16,390 --> 01:35:14,320
there's so many uh i don't mean to evade

2973
01:35:17,830 --> 01:35:16,400
the question i would probably say just

2974
01:35:19,109 --> 01:35:17,840
off the top of my head and i could be

2975
01:35:22,149 --> 01:35:19,119
wrong but i'm just going with

2976
01:35:25,270 --> 01:35:22,159
what comes to mind is the famous belgian

2977
01:35:27,590 --> 01:35:25,280
sighting where you had an off-duty

2978
01:35:29,270 --> 01:35:27,600
jean-darm who was hosting a house party

2979
01:35:31,430 --> 01:35:29,280
he and his guests were seeing these

2980
01:35:33,189 --> 01:35:31,440
objects with the triangular

2981
01:35:35,430 --> 01:35:33,199
lighting configuration flying around in

2982
01:35:38,229 --> 01:35:35,440
the sky making erratic maneuvers

2983
01:35:39,350 --> 01:35:38,239
and then he contacted the local air

2984
01:35:41,669 --> 01:35:39,360
force base

2985
01:35:43,510 --> 01:35:41,679
they checked with the four separate nato

2986
01:35:46,390 --> 01:35:43,520
ground-based tracking stations

2987
01:35:46,950 --> 01:35:46,400
uh that were all tracking this you know

2988
01:35:49,430 --> 01:35:46,960
unknown

2989
01:35:51,030 --> 01:35:49,440
radar target at the exact same location

2990
01:35:52,149 --> 01:35:51,040
that the witnesses on the ground were

2991
01:35:53,990 --> 01:35:52,159
observing it

2992
01:35:56,149 --> 01:35:54,000
and then again this is what precipitated

2993
01:35:58,629 --> 01:35:56,159
the launch of uh the f-16

2994
01:36:00,149 --> 01:35:58,639
piloted by yves mielsberg who was the

2995
01:36:02,390 --> 01:36:00,159
the belgian pilot who's only done i

2996
01:36:04,149 --> 01:36:02,400
think two public interviews about this

2997
01:36:06,550 --> 01:36:04,159
he repeatedly locked on with his

2998
01:36:07,990 --> 01:36:06,560
on-board radar as soon as he locked on

2999
01:36:09,750 --> 01:36:08,000
one could almost surmise that it's

3000
01:36:11,270 --> 01:36:09,760
almost as if it detected that much like

3001
01:36:13,590 --> 01:36:11,280
our jet fighters can

3002
01:36:15,430 --> 01:36:13,600
and as soon as he would achieve lock-on

3003
01:36:17,430 --> 01:36:15,440
the object would peel away at incredible

3004
01:36:19,270 --> 01:36:17,440
speeds either increasing or decreasing

3005
01:36:21,270 --> 01:36:19,280
at incredible altitudes

3006
01:36:22,550 --> 01:36:21,280
he would then close on the object again

3007
01:36:25,109 --> 01:36:22,560
he would lock on

3008
01:36:26,149 --> 01:36:25,119
it would repeat the same thing you know

3009
01:36:28,390 --> 01:36:26,159
you can chalk up

3010
01:36:29,510 --> 01:36:28,400
coincidence or you know prosaic

3011
01:36:31,510 --> 01:36:29,520
explanations

3012
01:36:33,430 --> 01:36:31,520
but i think that one because of all the

3013
01:36:35,109 --> 01:36:33,440
disparate witnesses because of all the

3014
01:36:37,270 --> 01:36:35,119
different types of sensing equipment

3015
01:36:39,109 --> 01:36:37,280
ground-based radar airborne radar

3016
01:36:41,830 --> 01:36:39,119
the fact that he achieved multiple

3017
01:36:45,270 --> 01:36:41,840
lock-ons only for it to appear to react

3018
01:36:46,870 --> 01:36:45,280
to that to me that is probably one of

3019
01:36:48,310 --> 01:36:46,880
the more compelling i mean ideally we

3020
01:36:50,390 --> 01:36:48,320
want physical evidence we all want

3021
01:36:51,510 --> 01:36:50,400
physical evidence with regard to ufos

3022
01:36:53,430 --> 01:36:51,520
but i think that's one of the most

3023
01:36:54,550 --> 01:36:53,440
credible and i might add

3024
01:36:56,870 --> 01:36:54,560
getting back to what we alluded to

3025
01:36:59,350 --> 01:36:56,880
earlier ryan the provenance

3026
01:37:01,109 --> 01:36:59,360
we have the the belgian air force that

3027
01:37:02,070 --> 01:37:01,119
acknowledged this that released the

3028
01:37:05,750 --> 01:37:02,080
radar

3029
01:37:06,870 --> 01:37:05,760
information i mean i then colonel later

3030
01:37:09,189 --> 01:37:06,880
general de brauer

3031
01:37:10,310 --> 01:37:09,199
acknowledged all of this and still today

3032
01:37:12,229 --> 01:37:10,320
acknowledges it

3033
01:37:14,550 --> 01:37:12,239
so yeah i would say that's probably one

3034
01:37:17,910 --> 01:37:14,560
of the best evidentiary cases for

3035
01:37:18,950 --> 01:37:17,920
triangular ufos i love it yeah and

3036
01:37:22,229 --> 01:37:18,960
you're right um

3037
01:37:24,149 --> 01:37:22,239
in in lieu of having the craft on the

3038
01:37:26,070 --> 01:37:24,159
ground and being able to study it

3039
01:37:27,430 --> 01:37:26,080
uh if the air force is releasing their

3040
01:37:30,390 --> 01:37:27,440
data on this event

3041
01:37:31,750 --> 01:37:30,400
that's all we could ask for um oh this

3042
01:37:34,870 --> 01:37:31,760
is an interesting one um

3043
01:37:38,070 --> 01:37:34,880
dan on reddit asks is there

3044
01:37:40,709 --> 01:37:38,080
any observed connections between

3045
01:37:42,470 --> 01:37:40,719
triangle sightings and saucer sightings

3046
01:37:45,270 --> 01:37:42,480
or have you ever come across

3047
01:37:46,870 --> 01:37:45,280
reports where different types of ufos

3048
01:37:49,430 --> 01:37:46,880
were seen at the same time

3049
01:37:50,550 --> 01:37:49,440
you ever seen a saucer trailing behind a

3050
01:37:52,229 --> 01:37:50,560
triangle dave

3051
01:37:53,990 --> 01:37:52,239
actually well i haven't i don't know if

3052
01:37:54,470 --> 01:37:54,000
i have any saucers trailing a triangle

3053
01:37:55,669 --> 01:37:54,480
but

3054
01:37:57,030 --> 01:37:55,679
that's a great question and it's

3055
01:37:58,390 --> 01:37:57,040
actually one of the characteristics i

3056
01:38:01,109 --> 01:37:58,400
outlined in my book

3057
01:38:01,910 --> 01:38:01,119
and i have other cases since then again

3058
01:38:03,350 --> 01:38:01,920
bolstering what i

3059
01:38:06,149 --> 01:38:03,360
already outlined in the book back in

3060
01:38:08,310 --> 01:38:06,159
2013 uh there was a famous uh

3061
01:38:10,229 --> 01:38:08,320
uh case uh not a famous case but a

3062
01:38:12,470 --> 01:38:10,239
well-documented case i should say

3063
01:38:13,990 --> 01:38:12,480
uh back from november or i'm sorry april

3064
01:38:16,709 --> 01:38:14,000
of 1958

3065
01:38:18,950 --> 01:38:16,719
in denmark uh and i include this in my

3066
01:38:22,229 --> 01:38:18,960
book it was over the village of bro here

3067
01:38:23,030 --> 01:38:22,239
in denmark where a woman observed a

3068
01:38:24,550 --> 01:38:23,040
large black

3069
01:38:27,030 --> 01:38:24,560
silent triangle hovering over the

3070
01:38:30,229 --> 01:38:27,040
village and she then described as if

3071
01:38:32,870 --> 01:38:30,239
that wasn't bizarre enough in 1958 uh

3072
01:38:34,390 --> 01:38:32,880
she then described uh a series of

3073
01:38:37,189 --> 01:38:34,400
horseshoe-shaped

3074
01:38:39,030 --> 01:38:37,199
objects flying out of the triangle each

3075
01:38:40,550 --> 01:38:39,040
emitting a very bright light

3076
01:38:42,790 --> 01:38:40,560
now what's interesting and i mentioned

3077
01:38:44,070 --> 01:38:42,800
this earlier if we just had this one

3078
01:38:45,830 --> 01:38:44,080
woman's testimony

3079
01:38:47,669 --> 01:38:45,840
yeah you could believe it or discount it

3080
01:38:49,350 --> 01:38:47,679
you know it's up to you

3081
01:38:51,430 --> 01:38:49,360
this was in a reuters news service

3082
01:38:52,470 --> 01:38:51,440
article and the reuters article goes on

3083
01:38:54,629 --> 01:38:52,480
to state

3084
01:38:57,030 --> 01:38:54,639
reuters was able to confirm the woman's

3085
01:38:58,950 --> 01:38:57,040
siding with at least 20 other villagers

3086
01:39:01,109 --> 01:38:58,960
so we had a multiple witness account of

3087
01:39:04,310 --> 01:39:01,119
this describing not only a black

3088
01:39:05,510 --> 01:39:04,320
silent low hanging triangle but these

3089
01:39:08,070 --> 01:39:05,520
objects coming out

3090
01:39:10,149 --> 01:39:08,080
now conversely there are other accounts

3091
01:39:12,709 --> 01:39:10,159
of these triangles where objects are

3092
01:39:14,870 --> 01:39:12,719
going in to the triangle the belgian

3093
01:39:16,390 --> 01:39:14,880
wave they had this red orb or light that

3094
01:39:18,629 --> 01:39:16,400
would fly around independent and then

3095
01:39:21,910 --> 01:39:18,639
would return to the belly of the object

3096
01:39:23,590 --> 01:39:21,920
um that's just one case uh there was a

3097
01:39:25,910 --> 01:39:23,600
famous case uh

3098
01:39:27,030 --> 01:39:25,920
it was a british overseas airway

3099
01:39:30,229 --> 01:39:27,040
corporation

3100
01:39:33,590 --> 01:39:30,239
flight near nova scotia

3101
01:39:35,189 --> 01:39:33,600
and this object was seen in 1954

3102
01:39:37,350 --> 01:39:35,199
and i talked about it in my book this

3103
01:39:40,229 --> 01:39:37,360
garnered worldwide media attention

3104
01:39:40,470 --> 01:39:40,239
uh captain howard was the pilot who was

3105
01:39:43,510 --> 01:39:40,480
a

3106
01:39:53,830 --> 01:39:43,520
he

3107
01:39:57,109 --> 01:39:53,840
for

3108
01:39:59,830 --> 01:39:57,119
about uh 15 or 20 minutes at least

3109
01:40:01,750 --> 01:39:59,840
and what they saw originally looked like

3110
01:40:05,350 --> 01:40:01,760
an antique telephone receiver

3111
01:40:08,149 --> 01:40:05,360
upside down and then they noticed

3112
01:40:09,109 --> 01:40:08,159
on each side were three objects three

3113
01:40:11,270 --> 01:40:09,119
black dots

3114
01:40:12,470 --> 01:40:11,280
on each side that were flanking this

3115
01:40:15,430 --> 01:40:12,480
object

3116
01:40:17,189 --> 01:40:15,440
captain howard described the parent

3117
01:40:19,270 --> 01:40:17,199
object or the main object

3118
01:40:21,030 --> 01:40:19,280
that appeared to change shape as they

3119
01:40:22,149 --> 01:40:21,040
were observing it over this extended

3120
01:40:24,070 --> 01:40:22,159
period of time

3121
01:40:25,350 --> 01:40:24,080
and at one point he sketches and

3122
01:40:26,790 --> 01:40:25,360
describes and i have a lot of the

3123
01:40:29,189 --> 01:40:26,800
original news clippings from the time

3124
01:40:32,229 --> 01:40:29,199
period as well as copies

3125
01:40:34,310 --> 01:40:32,239
the object being a triangle and

3126
01:40:36,310 --> 01:40:34,320
uh his attention the captain's attention

3127
01:40:38,310 --> 01:40:36,320
was turned away at one point

3128
01:40:40,950 --> 01:40:38,320
first officer lee boyd continued to

3129
01:40:42,629 --> 01:40:40,960
observe this series of essentially seven

3130
01:40:45,990 --> 01:40:42,639
objects the main object and

3131
01:40:47,350 --> 01:40:46,000
six attendant objects and then his

3132
01:40:50,229 --> 01:40:47,360
while captain howard's attention was

3133
01:40:52,229 --> 01:40:50,239
diverted away he turns back

3134
01:40:54,550 --> 01:40:52,239
and he asked the officer the first

3135
01:40:55,350 --> 01:40:54,560
officer where did the small objects go i

3136
01:40:57,430 --> 01:40:55,360
don't see them

3137
01:41:00,070 --> 01:40:57,440
and officer lee boyd responded it looked

3138
01:41:03,270 --> 01:41:00,080
like they went into the larger one

3139
01:41:05,669 --> 01:41:03,280
so these are very early cases by pilots

3140
01:41:07,669 --> 01:41:05,679
describing an early triangular ufo

3141
01:41:10,709 --> 01:41:07,679
report with attendant or you know

3142
01:41:12,149 --> 01:41:10,719
objects along with them one of the other

3143
01:41:13,990 --> 01:41:12,159
characteristics that i see

3144
01:41:15,669 --> 01:41:14,000
in a number of reports and i almost

3145
01:41:17,030 --> 01:41:15,679
listed it as a common characteristic but

3146
01:41:18,790 --> 01:41:17,040
i felt like i just didn't have enough

3147
01:41:21,030 --> 01:41:18,800
cases to really warrant that

3148
01:41:22,470 --> 01:41:21,040
but it is a common theme with a handful

3149
01:41:23,910 --> 01:41:22,480
of accounts now

3150
01:41:25,590 --> 01:41:23,920
is the fact that these triangles have

3151
01:41:29,189 --> 01:41:25,600
often been seen with rectangular

3152
01:41:31,590 --> 01:41:29,199
ufos uh in the january 5th 2000 case

3153
01:41:32,470 --> 01:41:31,600
a later witness came forward stating

3154
01:41:37,350 --> 01:41:32,480
they saw

3155
01:41:40,550 --> 01:41:37,360
triangle in the same portion of the sky

3156
01:41:41,990 --> 01:41:40,560
uh the the uh november 29th evening that

3157
01:41:43,030 --> 01:41:42,000
started the whole belgian wave that i

3158
01:41:46,470 --> 01:41:43,040
alluded to

3159
01:41:49,510 --> 01:41:46,480
um that case the gendarmes

3160
01:41:51,750 --> 01:41:49,520
saw two triangles in the sky

3161
01:41:52,790 --> 01:41:51,760
and then the dispatcher albert kreutz

3162
01:41:54,390 --> 01:41:52,800
and yupon

3163
01:41:56,149 --> 01:41:54,400
stepped out on his balcony to see if he

3164
01:41:57,590 --> 01:41:56,159
could see anything and he wasn't in the

3165
01:41:59,189 --> 01:41:57,600
immediate proximity

3166
01:42:01,270 --> 01:41:59,199
but he was laughing at the whole thing

3167
01:42:03,990 --> 01:42:01,280
he steps out and he sketched

3168
01:42:05,830 --> 01:42:04,000
a rectangular object had kind of the

3169
01:42:07,430 --> 01:42:05,840
dimensions of like a shoe box

3170
01:42:08,870 --> 01:42:07,440
with a bright light at each corner of

3171
01:42:10,550 --> 01:42:08,880
the rectangle

3172
01:42:12,390 --> 01:42:10,560
so you have triangles being reported in

3173
01:42:13,350 --> 01:42:12,400
the area and a rectangle with lights in

3174
01:42:16,390 --> 01:42:13,360
each corner

3175
01:42:17,750 --> 01:42:16,400
i found an aprofile an apro case from

3176
01:42:20,550 --> 01:42:17,760
their apro bulletin

3177
01:42:21,030 --> 01:42:20,560
from the late 70s where a woman in new

3178
01:42:22,709 --> 01:42:21,040
york

3179
01:42:24,229 --> 01:42:22,719
had just arrived home from grocery

3180
01:42:26,310 --> 01:42:24,239
shopping and they saw a triangular

3181
01:42:27,830 --> 01:42:26,320
object fly over their neighborhood

3182
01:42:30,070 --> 01:42:27,840
they went in to start taking the

3183
01:42:30,790 --> 01:42:30,080
groceries in and as they came out he

3184
01:42:34,310 --> 01:42:30,800
then saw

3185
01:42:35,990 --> 01:42:34,320
a rectangular object with the exact same

3186
01:42:37,669 --> 01:42:36,000
description in sketch and in my book i

3187
01:42:39,510 --> 01:42:37,679
put them side by side

3188
01:42:40,870 --> 01:42:39,520
with a bright light at each corner of

3189
01:42:44,070 --> 01:42:40,880
the rectangle

3190
01:42:45,189 --> 01:42:44,080
oh wow so coincidence upon coincidence

3191
01:42:47,189 --> 01:42:45,199
which you can write off

3192
01:42:49,350 --> 01:42:47,199
but i have other cases where they're

3193
01:42:51,030 --> 01:42:49,360
describing similar things so

3194
01:42:53,030 --> 01:42:51,040
this is why i'm anxious to dive into

3195
01:42:54,790 --> 01:42:53,040
these files to see what else i can find

3196
01:42:57,910 --> 01:42:54,800
out in other cases that might

3197
01:43:00,709 --> 01:42:57,920
show similarities right wow

3198
01:43:01,990 --> 01:43:00,719
and i mean your ability to just rattle

3199
01:43:03,910 --> 01:43:02,000
off names and dates

3200
01:43:05,830 --> 01:43:03,920
and everything just as sounds we gave

3201
01:43:08,830 --> 01:43:05,840
it's an art form in itself but um

3202
01:43:10,470 --> 01:43:08,840
that's great because as age progresses i

3203
01:43:13,910 --> 01:43:10,480
might

3204
01:43:15,910 --> 01:43:13,920
yeah i'm starting to feel that man um uh

3205
01:43:18,629 --> 01:43:15,920
well it reminds me so much of something

3206
01:43:19,270 --> 01:43:18,639
like the uh tehran ufo incident as well

3207
01:43:22,229 --> 01:43:19,280
these like

3208
01:43:23,350 --> 01:43:22,239
they're almost like drones coming out of

3209
01:43:25,270 --> 01:43:23,360
the main

3210
01:43:27,430 --> 01:43:25,280
whatever you want to call it mothership

3211
01:43:29,830 --> 01:43:27,440
let's say for lack of a better term

3212
01:43:31,750 --> 01:43:29,840
and like scouting out the area before

3213
01:43:33,030 --> 01:43:31,760
the the major craft comes in or

3214
01:43:34,550 --> 01:43:33,040
something i don't know

3215
01:43:36,390 --> 01:43:34,560
it's fascinating you bring that up ryan

3216
01:43:37,189 --> 01:43:36,400
because you're absolutely correct you

3217
01:43:38,550 --> 01:43:37,199
know they had this

3218
01:43:40,870 --> 01:43:38,560
object that was jettisoned from the

3219
01:43:41,430 --> 01:43:40,880
parent object in addition to that if you

3220
01:43:43,830 --> 01:43:41,440
recall

3221
01:43:44,870 --> 01:43:43,840
uh i believe it was uh the pilot was

3222
01:43:47,910 --> 01:43:44,880
jafari

3223
01:43:49,510 --> 01:43:47,920
he he repeatedly locked on with onboard

3224
01:43:51,669 --> 01:43:49,520
radar if you recall

3225
01:43:53,109 --> 01:43:51,679
only contrary to the belgian wave where

3226
01:43:55,590 --> 01:43:53,119
the object peeled away

3227
01:43:56,229 --> 01:43:55,600
every time he locked on he lost systems

3228
01:43:59,270 --> 01:43:56,239
control

3229
01:44:02,070 --> 01:43:59,280
of his jet and had to pull away

3230
01:44:02,629 --> 01:44:02,080
but he did that repeatedly so again to

3231
01:44:05,270 --> 01:44:02,639
your point

3232
01:44:05,990 --> 01:44:05,280
patterns in the data there seems to be a

3233
01:44:09,510 --> 01:44:06,000
response

3234
01:44:11,590 --> 01:44:09,520
in reaction to the radar lock-on

3235
01:44:13,350 --> 01:44:11,600
wow yeah well that actually bleeds

3236
01:44:16,070 --> 01:44:13,360
perfectly into this next

3237
01:44:18,310 --> 01:44:16,080
question dave uh this comes from bret on

3238
01:44:20,629 --> 01:44:18,320
reddit and talk about data here we go

3239
01:44:23,030 --> 01:44:20,639
what does mr marlar think of the june

3240
01:44:24,950 --> 01:44:23,040
2001 report published by

3241
01:44:26,870 --> 01:44:24,960
the national institute for discovery

3242
01:44:29,030 --> 01:44:26,880
science which found that quote the

3243
01:44:32,229 --> 01:44:29,040
triangle deltoid aircraft

3244
01:44:33,270 --> 01:44:32,239
spotted over 500 spotted by over 500

3245
01:44:35,590 --> 01:44:33,280
eyewitnesses

3246
01:44:38,629 --> 01:44:35,600
in the last decade um putting together

3247
01:44:40,149 --> 01:44:38,639
muban nids and larry hatch's data

3248
01:44:42,470 --> 01:44:40,159
are possibly consistent with the

3249
01:44:43,910 --> 01:44:42,480
deployment of unacknowledged aircraft

3250
01:44:46,070 --> 01:44:43,920
from and between

3251
01:44:48,229 --> 01:44:46,080
air mobility command and air force

3252
01:44:51,270 --> 01:44:48,239
material command basis

3253
01:44:52,390 --> 01:44:51,280
man that was a technical question on

3254
01:44:55,510 --> 01:44:52,400
that one

3255
01:44:57,270 --> 01:44:55,520
well again we cannot rule out military

3256
01:44:57,990 --> 01:44:57,280
aircraft with some of these triangle

3257
01:45:01,270 --> 01:44:58,000
reports i

3258
01:45:02,310 --> 01:45:01,280
i can see that you know very loudly

3259
01:45:05,270 --> 01:45:02,320
we can i don't know what

3260
01:45:07,270 --> 01:45:05,280
state-of-the-art technology was in 2001

3261
01:45:08,790 --> 01:45:07,280
or today so i can't sit here and

3262
01:45:10,709 --> 01:45:08,800
definitively state that these aren't

3263
01:45:13,910 --> 01:45:10,719
military in some cases

3264
01:45:15,270 --> 01:45:13,920
um but that being said again

3265
01:45:17,510 --> 01:45:15,280
it doesn't explain the historical

3266
01:45:20,629 --> 01:45:17,520
reports and the other thing is this

3267
01:45:21,270 --> 01:45:20,639
we have ufos that have congregated

3268
01:45:23,830 --> 01:45:21,280
around

3269
01:45:25,109 --> 01:45:23,840
not triangles but ufos in general that

3270
01:45:27,109 --> 01:45:25,119
have congregated around

3271
01:45:29,109 --> 01:45:27,119
nuclear weapons and nuclear weapons

3272
01:45:30,470 --> 01:45:29,119
sites right that doesn't mean that the

3273
01:45:33,030 --> 01:45:30,480
nuclear weapon sites

3274
01:45:34,390 --> 01:45:33,040
are the origin of the ufos any more than

3275
01:45:34,790 --> 01:45:34,400
just because we have triangles being

3276
01:45:37,189 --> 01:45:34,800
seen

3277
01:45:38,870 --> 01:45:37,199
near military bases correlation does not

3278
01:45:40,709 --> 01:45:38,880
necessarily mean causation

3279
01:45:42,149 --> 01:45:40,719
they may not originate from those bases

3280
01:45:45,189 --> 01:45:42,159
rather you know

3281
01:45:46,390 --> 01:45:45,199
to chris mellon's you know idea are they

3282
01:45:49,030 --> 01:45:46,400
mapping these things out

3283
01:45:49,910 --> 01:45:49,040
are they doing reconnaissance we simply

3284
01:45:53,750 --> 01:45:49,920
don't know

3285
01:45:56,070 --> 01:45:53,760
definitively and i believe

3286
01:45:57,270 --> 01:45:56,080
uh mu i believe and i could be wrong on

3287
01:45:58,629 --> 01:45:57,280
this one you were talking about my

3288
01:45:59,750 --> 01:45:58,639
memory i might be wrong on this one i'm

3289
01:46:01,510 --> 01:45:59,760
willing to concede

3290
01:46:04,149 --> 01:46:01,520
uh i think nids actually even

3291
01:46:04,790 --> 01:46:04,159
backpedaled later and conceded that not

3292
01:46:06,870 --> 01:46:04,800
all

3293
01:46:08,870 --> 01:46:06,880
the patterns seem to congregate around

3294
01:46:10,229 --> 01:46:08,880
military but again i could be wrong it's

3295
01:46:12,229 --> 01:46:10,239
been years since i've read that i can't

3296
01:46:15,270 --> 01:46:12,239
believe that's been what 20 years ago

3297
01:46:17,430 --> 01:46:15,280
wow time flies man i know

3298
01:46:18,310 --> 01:46:17,440
yeah um the the correlation between

3299
01:46:20,390 --> 01:46:18,320
nuclear

3300
01:46:22,870 --> 01:46:20,400
facilities and ufos is one of the most

3301
01:46:24,709 --> 01:46:22,880
fascinating and most terrifying

3302
01:46:25,990 --> 01:46:24,719
connections to be made with all of this

3303
01:46:29,109 --> 01:46:26,000
and i think we're only

3304
01:46:32,310 --> 01:46:29,119
starting to scratch the surface so

3305
01:46:35,189 --> 01:46:32,320
yeah um oh here's a good one paul jay

3306
01:46:36,790 --> 01:46:35,199
on patreon asks there's a growing

3307
01:46:39,109 --> 01:46:36,800
metaphysical trench

3308
01:46:40,390 --> 01:46:39,119
within the uap world where we're seeing

3309
01:46:43,750 --> 01:46:40,400
things like

3310
01:46:45,750 --> 01:46:43,760
uh ce5 increase in popularity

3311
01:46:47,830 --> 01:46:45,760
even robert bigelow moving into the

3312
01:46:49,910 --> 01:46:47,840
consciousness investigations

3313
01:46:50,950 --> 01:46:49,920
um with his new program the bigelow

3314
01:46:53,430 --> 01:46:50,960
institute for

3315
01:46:55,430 --> 01:46:53,440
consciousness studies uh do you think

3316
01:46:56,390 --> 01:46:55,440
this is something that shows promise and

3317
01:46:59,030 --> 01:46:56,400
will help

3318
01:46:59,669 --> 01:46:59,040
with our understanding of what uaps are

3319
01:47:03,669 --> 01:46:59,679
or

3320
01:47:04,790 --> 01:47:03,679
kind of muddy the waters when it comes

3321
01:47:05,189 --> 01:47:04,800
to trying to figure out what these

3322
01:47:07,830 --> 01:47:05,199
things

3323
01:47:08,709 --> 01:47:07,840
are no it's a good question let me first

3324
01:47:10,950 --> 01:47:08,719
say that

3325
01:47:12,149 --> 01:47:10,960
as i alluded to earlier i think the more

3326
01:47:14,470 --> 01:47:12,159
eyes we have the more

3327
01:47:16,709 --> 01:47:14,480
brains we have focused on this problem

3328
01:47:18,470 --> 01:47:16,719
coming from multiple

3329
01:47:20,149 --> 01:47:18,480
vantage points with different

3330
01:47:22,550 --> 01:47:20,159
perspectives

3331
01:47:23,669 --> 01:47:22,560
i think that uh it certainly could

3332
01:47:25,830 --> 01:47:23,679
provide value

3333
01:47:27,510 --> 01:47:25,840
uh as i like to say it's not what you

3334
01:47:28,709 --> 01:47:27,520
study but rather how you study it it's

3335
01:47:30,229 --> 01:47:28,719
the methodology

3336
01:47:32,149 --> 01:47:30,239
that that needs to be called into

3337
01:47:33,669 --> 01:47:32,159
question i mean if there's true

3338
01:47:35,030 --> 01:47:33,679
scientific work being done with regard

3339
01:47:35,990 --> 01:47:35,040
to consciousness and these other

3340
01:47:38,470 --> 01:47:36,000
elements with regard

3341
01:47:40,390 --> 01:47:38,480
to ufos or uaps i certainly don't

3342
01:47:42,229 --> 01:47:40,400
discourage it i welcome anybody that's

3343
01:47:43,350 --> 01:47:42,239
doing credible research regardless of

3344
01:47:43,990 --> 01:47:43,360
the avenue from which they're

3345
01:47:48,830 --> 01:47:44,000
approaching

3346
01:47:52,229 --> 01:47:48,840
this subject um but that being said

3347
01:47:55,990 --> 01:47:52,239
beyond us within the ufo research field

3348
01:47:58,870 --> 01:47:56,000
um what i fear is that regardless of

3349
01:48:00,629 --> 01:47:58,880
the validity of that type of research um

3350
01:48:02,950 --> 01:48:00,639
the general public

3351
01:48:04,790 --> 01:48:02,960
is then going to say well they're into

3352
01:48:06,709 --> 01:48:04,800
consciousness they're into ufos they're

3353
01:48:07,830 --> 01:48:06,719
into crystal gazing they're into tarot

3354
01:48:09,030 --> 01:48:07,840
cards

3355
01:48:11,750 --> 01:48:09,040
they're going to paint with a broad

3356
01:48:13,590 --> 01:48:11,760
brush and i think that

3357
01:48:15,030 --> 01:48:13,600
the credibility that we've seen being

3358
01:48:16,550 --> 01:48:15,040
attributed to the subject

3359
01:48:18,390 --> 01:48:16,560
since the new york times article in

3360
01:48:21,270 --> 01:48:18,400
december 2017

3361
01:48:21,990 --> 01:48:21,280
could possibly be eroded by things like

3362
01:48:26,070 --> 01:48:22,000
that

3363
01:48:27,590 --> 01:48:26,080
inquiry but just the general public

3364
01:48:29,750 --> 01:48:27,600
in their mind they're just going to lump

3365
01:48:31,910 --> 01:48:29,760
it all together so you believe in

3366
01:48:33,669 --> 01:48:31,920
you know leprechauns you believe in the

3367
01:48:34,870 --> 01:48:33,679
loch ness monster you believe in

3368
01:48:36,790 --> 01:48:34,880
consciousness

3369
01:48:38,310 --> 01:48:36,800
and out-of-body experiences now you're

3370
01:48:39,270 --> 01:48:38,320
saying we need to believe in ufos you

3371
01:48:42,390 --> 01:48:39,280
expect us to believe

3372
01:48:43,430 --> 01:48:42,400
all this and so i i see it just it could

3373
01:48:46,790 --> 01:48:43,440
muddy the waters

3374
01:48:48,950 --> 01:48:46,800
even if it is a viable area of research

3375
01:48:49,990 --> 01:48:48,960
yeah it's tough because i agree with you

3376
01:48:52,470 --> 01:48:50,000
i think there's

3377
01:48:54,310 --> 01:48:52,480
there's room for all theories and

3378
01:48:55,189 --> 01:48:54,320
approaches when it comes to ufos because

3379
01:48:57,030 --> 01:48:55,199
we don't

3380
01:48:59,270 --> 01:48:57,040
know what the hell we're dealing with so

3381
01:49:01,910 --> 01:48:59,280
why not just do all the things but

3382
01:49:04,629 --> 01:49:01,920
to the mainstream perception of the

3383
01:49:07,990 --> 01:49:04,639
topic i can understand why it would uh

3384
01:49:10,229 --> 01:49:08,000
it would deflect the immense

3385
01:49:11,270 --> 01:49:10,239
growth we've had in the past three years

3386
01:49:13,589 --> 01:49:11,280
of credibility

3387
01:49:14,870 --> 01:49:13,599
so right yeah it's always a struggle i

3388
01:49:17,910 --> 01:49:14,880
agree with you um

3389
01:49:20,790 --> 01:49:17,920
we're walking a final yes we always

3390
01:49:23,109 --> 01:49:20,800
are i know that tight rope um here's a

3391
01:49:25,189 --> 01:49:23,119
good one from miguel on facebook he asks

3392
01:49:27,270 --> 01:49:25,199
as far as i know i'm one of the few

3393
01:49:27,990 --> 01:49:27,280
witnesses that has reported seeing a

3394
01:49:30,870 --> 01:49:28,000
triangular

3395
01:49:32,550 --> 01:49:30,880
craft just pop out of thin air i'll let

3396
01:49:35,430 --> 01:49:32,560
you be the judge of that dave um

3397
01:49:36,629 --> 01:49:35,440
it starts off as sparkles like the kind

3398
01:49:38,709 --> 01:49:36,639
of roman sparkler

3399
01:49:40,149 --> 01:49:38,719
would make if i haven't seen that craft

3400
01:49:42,470 --> 01:49:40,159
pop out of those sparks

3401
01:49:43,350 --> 01:49:42,480
i wouldn't have seen it at all that's

3402
01:49:45,830 --> 01:49:43,360
how stealth

3403
01:49:47,510 --> 01:49:45,840
and stealthy and quiet it was so i'd

3404
01:49:48,870 --> 01:49:47,520
love to know what dave makes the deal

3405
01:49:50,790 --> 01:49:48,880
what the deal is with that

3406
01:49:52,709 --> 01:49:50,800
is it cloaking tech or is this craft

3407
01:49:54,629 --> 01:49:52,719
capable of jumping

3408
01:49:56,790 --> 01:49:54,639
place in time that's crazy to think

3409
01:49:58,390 --> 01:49:56,800
about it's crazy to think about but i

3410
01:49:59,430 --> 01:49:58,400
don't think again we can rule out any

3411
01:50:01,270 --> 01:49:59,440
possibility

3412
01:50:02,950 --> 01:50:01,280
uh but there are other accounts where

3413
01:50:03,510 --> 01:50:02,960
the thing just suddenly like appears

3414
01:50:06,470 --> 01:50:03,520
like

3415
01:50:08,070 --> 01:50:06,480
it's there right or or disappears or

3416
01:50:10,149 --> 01:50:08,080
there's other cases where

3417
01:50:12,390 --> 01:50:10,159
there's hyper acceleration where the

3418
01:50:13,910 --> 01:50:12,400
witness is barely able to perceive

3419
01:50:16,709 --> 01:50:13,920
this rapid acceleration where it

3420
01:50:18,629 --> 01:50:16,719
disappears um the sparks though

3421
01:50:21,030 --> 01:50:18,639
i think there's only maybe one other

3422
01:50:23,510 --> 01:50:21,040
case and i'm trying to remember

3423
01:50:24,070 --> 01:50:23,520
i i want to say it was massachusetts or

3424
01:50:26,149 --> 01:50:24,080
maine

3425
01:50:27,669 --> 01:50:26,159
where there was another case and i even

3426
01:50:29,750 --> 01:50:27,679
found a video to this

3427
01:50:31,030 --> 01:50:29,760
if you want to reach out to me i can try

3428
01:50:34,070 --> 01:50:31,040
to send you

3429
01:50:34,950 --> 01:50:34,080
the news clip uh who who's asking about

3430
01:50:37,430 --> 01:50:34,960
the sparks

3431
01:50:39,030 --> 01:50:37,440
i believe in that case the two witnesses

3432
01:50:41,189 --> 01:50:39,040
who were newscasters

3433
01:50:42,629 --> 01:50:41,199
saw this this object that was roughly

3434
01:50:44,310 --> 01:50:42,639
triangular in shape

3435
01:50:46,709 --> 01:50:44,320
and they said it there it looked like

3436
01:50:48,550 --> 01:50:46,719
there was a cable or a rope dangling and

3437
01:50:51,430 --> 01:50:48,560
they could see sparks coming off of that

3438
01:50:52,709 --> 01:50:51,440
if memory serves me correctly but if you

3439
01:50:54,149 --> 01:50:52,719
want to reach out to me i could try to

3440
01:50:55,910 --> 01:50:54,159
send you the link to that or i can send

3441
01:50:57,109 --> 01:50:55,920
you the video where the witnesses are

3442
01:51:00,470 --> 01:50:57,119
describing that

3443
01:51:03,030 --> 01:51:00,480
but um yeah seeing sparks uh that's not

3444
01:51:04,149 --> 01:51:03,040
something i commonly hear about uh in in

3445
01:51:06,070 --> 01:51:04,159
the information

3446
01:51:08,709 --> 01:51:06,080
but this illustrates a good point though

3447
01:51:09,910 --> 01:51:08,719
ryan you know we always focus on what we

3448
01:51:11,350 --> 01:51:09,920
see in the data

3449
01:51:12,950 --> 01:51:11,360
but likewise i think it's interesting

3450
01:51:14,390 --> 01:51:12,960
when we find these characteristics that

3451
01:51:16,070 --> 01:51:14,400
we often don't see

3452
01:51:17,430 --> 01:51:16,080
you know what's going on there is

3453
01:51:19,270 --> 01:51:17,440
there's something going on that we need

3454
01:51:21,189 --> 01:51:19,280
to look at more closely

3455
01:51:22,390 --> 01:51:21,199
and again looking through this

3456
01:51:24,550 --> 01:51:22,400
additional data

3457
01:51:26,310 --> 01:51:24,560
will we find other cases that maybe show

3458
01:51:28,310 --> 01:51:26,320
that that is a pattern we just based on

3459
01:51:31,350 --> 01:51:28,320
the data we were looking at thus far

3460
01:51:32,390 --> 01:51:31,360
hadn't made that connection exactly and

3461
01:51:36,470 --> 01:51:32,400
i think another

3462
01:51:37,669 --> 01:51:36,480
issue that arises is uh researchers tend

3463
01:51:39,990 --> 01:51:37,679
to

3464
01:51:41,510 --> 01:51:40,000
almost censor some of the more high

3465
01:51:44,870 --> 01:51:41,520
strangeness aspects

3466
01:51:47,669 --> 01:51:44,880
of these blinders which

3467
01:51:49,109 --> 01:51:47,679
is harmful to the data i mean if

3468
01:51:51,350 --> 01:51:49,119
someone's saying that

3469
01:51:52,149 --> 01:51:51,360
sparks appeared and this craft came out

3470
01:51:55,189 --> 01:51:52,159
of nowhere

3471
01:51:57,669 --> 01:51:55,199
uh that's very important to the patterns

3472
01:51:58,790 --> 01:51:57,679
um or you know i i've spoken to many

3473
01:52:01,430 --> 01:51:58,800
experiencers

3474
01:52:02,149 --> 01:52:01,440
who have what many people would consider

3475
01:52:04,870 --> 01:52:02,159
insane

3476
01:52:05,990 --> 01:52:04,880
stories to tell about a close encounter

3477
01:52:09,589 --> 01:52:06,000
or this or that

3478
01:52:11,750 --> 01:52:09,599
and you know maybe early in my ufo

3479
01:52:13,589 --> 01:52:11,760
researcher days i'd be like uh that's a

3480
01:52:14,550 --> 01:52:13,599
little too much let me pull it back a

3481
01:52:16,950 --> 01:52:14,560
little before

3482
01:52:18,950 --> 01:52:16,960
presenting it to the public not knowing

3483
01:52:19,589 --> 01:52:18,960
what detriment i was doing to the actual

3484
01:52:22,950 --> 01:52:19,599
case

3485
01:52:23,910 --> 01:52:22,960
now give me the weirdest [\h__\h] you got

3486
01:52:26,390 --> 01:52:23,920
man because

3487
01:52:26,950 --> 01:52:26,400
that needs to be put out there um i

3488
01:52:29,189 --> 01:52:26,960
don't know

3489
01:52:29,990 --> 01:52:29,199
am i writing that no you're absolutely

3490
01:52:31,669 --> 01:52:30,000
right and you know

3491
01:52:33,350 --> 01:52:31,679
look ufo researchers are no different

3492
01:52:35,030 --> 01:52:33,360
than any other researcher in any other

3493
01:52:37,510 --> 01:52:35,040
discipline we're subject to our own

3494
01:52:39,669 --> 01:52:37,520
personal prejudices and biases

3495
01:52:40,709 --> 01:52:39,679
um you know we're not robots we cannot

3496
01:52:43,669 --> 01:52:40,719
be 100

3497
01:52:43,990 --> 01:52:43,679
objective when we look at information um

3498
01:52:45,990 --> 01:52:44,000
and

3499
01:52:47,830 --> 01:52:46,000
so you know that being said we have to

3500
01:52:49,669 --> 01:52:47,840
acknowledge that's just unfortunately

3501
01:52:52,390 --> 01:52:49,679
the nature of the beast i mean

3502
01:52:53,189 --> 01:52:52,400
we're not perfect and you know we may

3503
01:52:55,270 --> 01:52:53,199
discriminate

3504
01:52:56,470 --> 01:52:55,280
to some degree we're all guilty of that

3505
01:52:58,709 --> 01:52:56,480
you know anybody that says they're not

3506
01:53:01,750 --> 01:52:58,719
they're lying

3507
01:53:03,830 --> 01:53:01,760
so but to your point uh i

3508
01:53:05,910 --> 01:53:03,840
i don't find those anomalies those those

3509
01:53:06,790 --> 01:53:05,920
cases with those unusual characteristics

3510
01:53:09,350 --> 01:53:06,800
kind of like

3511
01:53:10,390 --> 01:53:09,360
it's a statistical outlier ignore it i'm

3512
01:53:13,030 --> 01:53:10,400
actually kind of

3513
01:53:14,070 --> 01:53:13,040
intrigued by those because again am i

3514
01:53:16,550 --> 01:53:14,080
missing something

3515
01:53:17,910 --> 01:53:16,560
are there other cases and so this is one

3516
01:53:18,629 --> 01:53:17,920
of those things we kind of put in our

3517
01:53:20,870 --> 01:53:18,639
gray file

3518
01:53:21,830 --> 01:53:20,880
no pun intended uh we put that in our

3519
01:53:23,990 --> 01:53:21,840
gray file

3520
01:53:25,750 --> 01:53:24,000
and then we go through additional data

3521
01:53:27,750 --> 01:53:25,760
and see if you know what

3522
01:53:29,589 --> 01:53:27,760
now that we're made aware of that we can

3523
01:53:30,470 --> 01:53:29,599
look for that and see if there are other

3524
01:53:32,070 --> 01:53:30,480
cases

3525
01:53:33,350 --> 01:53:32,080
and that's just just just being honest

3526
01:53:34,310 --> 01:53:33,360
with ourselves and being honest with the

3527
01:53:37,589 --> 01:53:34,320
data

3528
01:53:37,990 --> 01:53:37,599
yep exactly yep i love that um oh here's

3529
01:53:40,149 --> 01:53:38,000
one

3530
01:53:41,109 --> 01:53:40,159
in terms of if we have data or any

3531
01:53:42,229 --> 01:53:41,119
evidence dave

3532
01:53:44,870 --> 01:53:42,239
and i know you're the one that can

3533
01:53:47,669 --> 01:53:44,880
answer this lori on facebook asks

3534
01:53:48,070 --> 01:53:47,679
is there any actual hard evidence that

3535
01:53:51,270 --> 01:53:48,080
there

3536
01:53:53,589 --> 01:53:51,280
is uh for the supposed tr

3537
01:53:55,109 --> 01:53:53,599
3b i you knew it was going to come up at

3538
01:53:57,750 --> 01:53:55,119
some point in the conversation

3539
01:53:58,390 --> 01:53:57,760
um do you have evidence that this thing

3540
01:54:00,550 --> 01:53:58,400
exists

3541
01:54:02,470 --> 01:54:00,560
and uh the recent discovery of the

3542
01:54:04,070 --> 01:54:02,480
exotic navy patents

3543
01:54:05,830 --> 01:54:04,080
this is a pretty interesting story

3544
01:54:07,430 --> 01:54:05,840
making the rounds right now

3545
01:54:08,390 --> 01:54:07,440
it is it is and it's funny you say that

3546
01:54:09,910 --> 01:54:08,400
because i'm actually sitting here

3547
01:54:11,270 --> 01:54:09,920
looking i've got some pages of some of

3548
01:54:14,149 --> 01:54:11,280
the patents right here because

3549
01:54:15,510 --> 01:54:14,159
someone else asked me about that uh i'll

3550
01:54:17,910 --> 01:54:15,520
come to that last

3551
01:54:19,589 --> 01:54:17,920
okay let me just say with regard and and

3552
01:54:21,430 --> 01:54:19,599
i'm gonna preface this i do not mean to

3553
01:54:23,589 --> 01:54:21,440
insult anyone's belief system

3554
01:54:24,870 --> 01:54:23,599
or ideology with regard to this because

3555
01:54:28,550 --> 01:54:24,880
unfortunately

3556
01:54:31,589 --> 01:54:28,560
the quote-unquote tr-3b unquote

3557
01:54:34,070 --> 01:54:31,599
uh is uh manufactured

3558
01:54:36,470 --> 01:54:34,080
uh and it originates from one individual

3559
01:54:37,830 --> 01:54:36,480
by the name of edgar fouche who is no

3560
01:54:40,229 --> 01:54:37,840
longer with us

3561
01:54:41,030 --> 01:54:40,239
uh fouche claimed to have worked at area

3562
01:54:42,870 --> 01:54:41,040
51

3563
01:54:44,709 --> 01:54:42,880
and had been involved in some of these

3564
01:54:47,750 --> 01:54:44,719
exotic technologies

3565
01:54:50,310 --> 01:54:47,760
that uh you know he claims are you know

3566
01:54:53,750 --> 01:54:50,320
manufactured technologies uh

3567
01:54:55,669 --> 01:54:53,760
and that and he even said this and again

3568
01:54:57,750 --> 01:54:55,679
always be wary of people that use the

3569
01:55:00,229 --> 01:54:57,760
the absolute terms

3570
01:55:02,310 --> 01:55:00,239
he believed that all triangular ufo

3571
01:55:05,430 --> 01:55:02,320
reports are manufactured by

3572
01:55:07,669 --> 01:55:05,440
the military industrial complex um

3573
01:55:09,350 --> 01:55:07,679
now there's been a lot of questions with

3574
01:55:10,070 --> 01:55:09,360
regard to some of the physics that he

3575
01:55:11,669 --> 01:55:10,080
described

3576
01:55:13,430 --> 01:55:11,679
online and this is going back i might

3577
01:55:15,750 --> 01:55:13,440
add to the early mid 90s this

3578
01:55:18,149 --> 01:55:15,760
this tr3b thing goes all the way back to

3579
01:55:20,390 --> 01:55:18,159
one man and it goes back to the 90s

3580
01:55:22,310 --> 01:55:20,400
um he claimed that you know he

3581
01:55:23,990 --> 01:55:22,320
understood the physics he even put the

3582
01:55:25,750 --> 01:55:24,000
the physics out there for people to look

3583
01:55:27,270 --> 01:55:25,760
at he included really interesting

3584
01:55:29,830 --> 01:55:27,280
graphic images

3585
01:55:31,830 --> 01:55:29,840
and i have a problem with people that

3586
01:55:33,350 --> 01:55:31,840
claim that they were government insiders

3587
01:55:35,270 --> 01:55:33,360
working on projects

3588
01:55:36,950 --> 01:55:35,280
that then release information and

3589
01:55:39,430 --> 01:55:36,960
nothing's done to them

3590
01:55:40,950 --> 01:55:39,440
if you talk to anybody any serious

3591
01:55:41,430 --> 01:55:40,960
person that's out there that works for

3592
01:55:44,390 --> 01:55:41,440
boeing

3593
01:55:46,790 --> 01:55:44,400
lockheed mcdonald douglas raytheon any

3594
01:55:49,830 --> 01:55:46,800
of these defense contractors

3595
01:55:52,390 --> 01:55:49,840
they are very serious about security

3596
01:55:53,350 --> 01:55:52,400
you go through a strict security

3597
01:55:55,430 --> 01:55:53,360
screening

3598
01:55:56,950 --> 01:55:55,440
and you are constantly being screened

3599
01:55:58,470 --> 01:55:56,960
for security reasons

3600
01:56:01,270 --> 01:55:58,480
i mean talk to anybody that you know

3601
01:56:04,390 --> 01:56:01,280
that work for these companies if you do

3602
01:56:05,589 --> 01:56:04,400
the idea that you're gonna share the the

3603
01:56:08,310 --> 01:56:05,599
keys of the kingdom

3604
01:56:10,310 --> 01:56:08,320
this incredible magical technology and

3605
01:56:13,350 --> 01:56:10,320
throw it out there for all to see

3606
01:56:16,149 --> 01:56:13,360
and lecture about it and not have

3607
01:56:18,790 --> 01:56:16,159
any type of response in the form of

3608
01:56:20,629 --> 01:56:18,800
imprisonment fines etc

3609
01:56:22,070 --> 01:56:20,639
is just ridiculous and i know there's

3610
01:56:23,750 --> 01:56:22,080
people out there who say well

3611
01:56:25,750 --> 01:56:23,760
if they imprison or they find them then

3612
01:56:27,990 --> 01:56:25,760
that's just validating what they said

3613
01:56:29,270 --> 01:56:28,000
well then there's no security at all

3614
01:56:31,589 --> 01:56:29,280
because i mean if people are going to be

3615
01:56:33,669 --> 01:56:31,599
releasing top secret military secrets

3616
01:56:35,270 --> 01:56:33,679
with impunity then why the hell do we

3617
01:56:36,629 --> 01:56:35,280
even have security uh

3618
01:56:37,910 --> 01:56:36,639
screenings and why do we have these

3619
01:56:39,990 --> 01:56:37,920
people that are being monitored for

3620
01:56:42,550 --> 01:56:40,000
security reasons it's ridiculous

3621
01:56:43,510 --> 01:56:42,560
um i don't like to believe one

3622
01:56:44,950 --> 01:56:43,520
individual

3623
01:56:46,629 --> 01:56:44,960
solely especially when they come out

3624
01:56:49,350 --> 01:56:46,639
with a claim like that

3625
01:56:50,870 --> 01:56:49,360
uh the question was is there any like

3626
01:56:53,189 --> 01:56:50,880
evidence to support it

3627
01:56:55,109 --> 01:56:53,199
no none there's absolutely no evidence

3628
01:56:58,229 --> 01:56:55,119
it's the claims of one man

3629
01:57:01,109 --> 01:56:58,239
unfortunately as we see with much

3630
01:57:02,149 --> 01:57:01,119
miss or disinformation in the ufo field

3631
01:57:04,149 --> 01:57:02,159
the tr-3b

3632
01:57:05,830 --> 01:57:04,159
since the early mid-90s has now become

3633
01:57:07,910 --> 01:57:05,840
an urban myth it has grown in

3634
01:57:10,470 --> 01:57:07,920
mythological proportions

3635
01:57:12,310 --> 01:57:10,480
um and often i'll have people tell me i

3636
01:57:13,830 --> 01:57:12,320
saw a triangular ufo but i believe it

3637
01:57:16,629 --> 01:57:13,840
was a tr3b

3638
01:57:18,390 --> 01:57:16,639
i like to make a very clear distinction

3639
01:57:20,870 --> 01:57:18,400
if you say tr3b

3640
01:57:22,310 --> 01:57:20,880
then you are basically saying i believe

3641
01:57:24,950 --> 01:57:22,320
adopt and adhere to

3642
01:57:26,310 --> 01:57:24,960
all the claims made by edgar fouche

3643
01:57:27,910 --> 01:57:26,320
you're putting faith in that one

3644
01:57:30,149 --> 01:57:27,920
individual and their claims

3645
01:57:31,510 --> 01:57:30,159
despite there's no evidence to back any

3646
01:57:33,189 --> 01:57:31,520
of it up

3647
01:57:35,109 --> 01:57:33,199
if you come to me and say i saw a

3648
01:57:36,149 --> 01:57:35,119
triangular object but i think it might

3649
01:57:38,070 --> 01:57:36,159
be military

3650
01:57:40,310 --> 01:57:38,080
that's different but to use the

3651
01:57:42,950 --> 01:57:40,320
nomenclature tr3b

3652
01:57:45,030 --> 01:57:42,960
denotes that you endorse and believe

3653
01:57:47,270 --> 01:57:45,040
wholeheartedly in absence of evidence

3654
01:57:49,589 --> 01:57:47,280
the claims of one man at grifoche who's

3655
01:57:52,629 --> 01:57:49,599
unfortunately no longer with us

3656
01:57:52,950 --> 01:57:52,639
right it's almost like saying uh i saw

3657
01:57:55,750 --> 01:57:52,960
the

3658
01:57:57,030 --> 01:57:55,760
bob lazar sports model saucer right

3659
01:57:59,270 --> 01:57:57,040
absolutely

3660
01:58:00,629 --> 01:57:59,280
the assumption that this one man uh

3661
01:58:03,189 --> 01:58:00,639
holds all the antlers

3662
01:58:05,270 --> 01:58:03,199
right and if i can just real quick uh

3663
01:58:06,870 --> 01:58:05,280
ryan with regard to the patents because

3664
01:58:08,470 --> 01:58:06,880
like i said i just printed this off the

3665
01:58:10,950 --> 01:58:08,480
other day and i had it sitting here

3666
01:58:12,790 --> 01:58:10,960
um there's a number of these purported

3667
01:58:14,229 --> 01:58:12,800
patents floating around out there one is

3668
01:58:17,510 --> 01:58:14,239
a u.s patent

3669
01:58:19,430 --> 01:58:17,520
uh that was done for the navy

3670
01:58:21,510 --> 01:58:19,440
and this was dated the date of the

3671
01:58:23,750 --> 01:58:21,520
patent and i think this is important

3672
01:58:25,430 --> 01:58:23,760
the date of the patent is december 4th

3673
01:58:27,430 --> 01:58:25,440
2018.

3674
01:58:28,470 --> 01:58:27,440
how does this explain what was cited in

3675
01:58:30,510 --> 01:58:28,480
2001

3676
01:58:31,910 --> 01:58:30,520
how does this explain what was cited in

3677
01:58:33,430 --> 01:58:31,920
1967

3678
01:58:36,070 --> 01:58:33,440
how does this explain what was cited in

3679
01:58:38,790 --> 01:58:36,080
1957 or 1949

3680
01:58:40,310 --> 01:58:38,800
uh again you you cannot ignore the

3681
01:58:41,990 --> 01:58:40,320
historical record

3682
01:58:43,589 --> 01:58:42,000
the other one that i've seen and i don't

3683
01:58:45,270 --> 01:58:43,599
know if this one's legitimate or not

3684
01:58:46,709 --> 01:58:45,280
again i'm not endorsing these i'm just

3685
01:58:47,589 --> 01:58:46,719
simply saying these i know or what's

3686
01:58:48,870 --> 01:58:47,599
circulating

3687
01:58:50,070 --> 01:58:48,880
which are raising a lot of good

3688
01:58:50,950 --> 01:58:50,080
questions i think they're valid

3689
01:58:54,470 --> 01:58:50,960
questions

3690
01:58:55,430 --> 01:58:54,480
this one was created july 6 publication

3691
01:58:59,270 --> 01:58:55,440
day july 6

3692
01:59:02,550 --> 01:58:59,280
2006 and the title is called

3693
01:59:04,310 --> 01:59:02,560
triangular spacecraft and it shows the

3694
01:59:04,709 --> 01:59:04,320
stereotypical for those that are viewing

3695
01:59:08,149 --> 01:59:04,719
this

3696
01:59:10,870 --> 01:59:08,159
your stereotypical triangular ufo

3697
01:59:13,109 --> 01:59:10,880
now if you look at this and the fact

3698
01:59:14,950 --> 01:59:13,119
that it was done in 2006 it doesn't take

3699
01:59:17,750 --> 01:59:14,960
a stretch of the imagination

3700
01:59:19,990 --> 01:59:17,760
to put together that this civilian which

3701
01:59:22,550 --> 01:59:20,000
it was a civilian not the navy

3702
01:59:23,270 --> 01:59:22,560
uh had seen the ufo reports circulating

3703
01:59:25,830 --> 01:59:23,280
out there

3704
01:59:27,669 --> 01:59:25,840
and then created a working model based

3705
01:59:30,070 --> 01:59:27,679
on the physics that he knew

3706
01:59:30,870 --> 01:59:30,080
and tried to create a patent for it but

3707
01:59:32,709 --> 01:59:30,880
again

3708
01:59:34,950 --> 01:59:32,719
you know what came first the chicken or

3709
01:59:37,109 --> 01:59:34,960
the egg well the reports came way before

3710
01:59:38,950 --> 01:59:37,119
this in 2006 and certainly way before

3711
01:59:41,830 --> 01:59:38,960
this one in 2018

3712
01:59:42,870 --> 01:59:41,840
so i don't think that this explains uh

3713
01:59:45,189 --> 01:59:42,880
triangles

3714
01:59:47,030 --> 01:59:45,199
at least up to the dates in question and

3715
01:59:49,510 --> 01:59:47,040
again these are when the patents were

3716
01:59:50,229 --> 01:59:49,520
filed and published so even if you have

3717
01:59:52,950 --> 01:59:50,239
a patent

3718
01:59:54,070 --> 01:59:52,960
it takes years if not decades to go

3719
01:59:56,709 --> 01:59:54,080
especially with an

3720
01:59:58,470 --> 01:59:56,719
exotic aerospace vehicle like this to go

3721
02:00:00,629 --> 01:59:58,480
from a patent to an actual fully

3722
02:00:02,709 --> 02:00:00,639
operation working model

3723
02:00:04,470 --> 02:00:02,719
and so i think it's very important to

3724
02:00:05,910 --> 02:00:04,480
take all of that into consideration when

3725
02:00:08,149 --> 02:00:05,920
looking at those things

3726
02:00:10,070 --> 02:00:08,159
uh again but that's why i love the

3727
02:00:11,750 --> 02:00:10,080
historical accounts because i can go

3728
02:00:13,990 --> 02:00:11,760
back to 1957

3729
02:00:14,950 --> 02:00:14,000
with a fair degree of certainty and know

3730
02:00:16,550 --> 02:00:14,960
then

3731
02:00:19,109 --> 02:00:16,560
what state of the art technology was

3732
02:00:21,669 --> 02:00:19,119
with regard to the us military arsenal

3733
02:00:22,950 --> 02:00:21,679
i can't tell you you know in the last 20

3734
02:00:26,229 --> 02:00:22,960
30 years

3735
02:00:29,189 --> 02:00:26,239
what is state of the art yeah

3736
02:00:29,510 --> 02:00:29,199
yeah yep exactly again the data doesn't

3737
02:00:33,030 --> 02:00:29,520
lie

3738
02:00:35,750 --> 02:00:33,040
i love that um well i was

3739
02:00:37,430 --> 02:00:35,760
kind of in closing dave um the one thing

3740
02:00:40,870 --> 02:00:37,440
we haven't really touched on

3741
02:00:43,750 --> 02:00:40,880
is uh the current things going on

3742
02:00:45,830 --> 02:00:43,760
with the pentagon i mean let's see

3743
02:00:48,709 --> 02:00:45,840
elephant in the room the pentagon

3744
02:00:49,990 --> 02:00:48,719
started a ufo task force it's like i

3745
02:00:53,589 --> 02:00:50,000
don't know

3746
02:00:55,990 --> 02:00:53,599
blue book 2.0 um maybe

3747
02:00:57,189 --> 02:00:56,000
but uh this is pretty crazy again never

3748
02:00:59,270 --> 02:00:57,199
in my

3749
02:01:00,310 --> 02:00:59,280
time in doing ufo research did i think i

3750
02:01:03,510 --> 02:01:00,320
would see another

3751
02:01:05,030 --> 02:01:03,520
government-funded uap project so um what

3752
02:01:07,030 --> 02:01:05,040
do you make of all this man is this

3753
02:01:09,750 --> 02:01:07,040
something we should pay attention to

3754
02:01:11,510 --> 02:01:09,760
um should we temper our expectations i

3755
02:01:13,510 --> 02:01:11,520
guess we always should do that but um

3756
02:01:14,629 --> 02:01:13,520
i should always step for the expectation

3757
02:01:18,149 --> 02:01:14,639
yeah yeah

3758
02:01:20,950 --> 02:01:18,159
welcome to the ufo field um but within

3759
02:01:22,470 --> 02:01:20,960
180 days now i think it's something like

3760
02:01:24,870 --> 02:01:22,480
a hundred uh

3761
02:01:25,910 --> 02:01:24,880
they're supposed to give a report to the

3762
02:01:28,229 --> 02:01:25,920
public of

3763
02:01:29,750 --> 02:01:28,239
their findings within this task force

3764
02:01:30,950 --> 02:01:29,760
again something that christopher mellon

3765
02:01:34,149 --> 02:01:30,960
had a huge

3766
02:01:34,870 --> 02:01:34,159
part in doing um which did we expect

3767
02:01:36,950 --> 02:01:34,880
from this

3768
02:01:38,629 --> 02:01:36,960
should we trust that we get anything or

3769
02:01:40,629 --> 02:01:38,639
um yeah what do you think

3770
02:01:42,790 --> 02:01:40,639
yeah well in respect to the intelligence

3771
02:01:44,310 --> 02:01:42,800
authorization act of 2021

3772
02:01:46,070 --> 02:01:44,320
the senate intelligence authorization

3773
02:01:47,830 --> 02:01:46,080
act which had at the very

3774
02:01:49,270 --> 02:01:47,840
end under comments and i think that's

3775
02:01:52,390 --> 02:01:49,280
important people have to realize

3776
02:01:54,790 --> 02:01:52,400
it was under comments they requested

3777
02:01:56,470 --> 02:01:54,800
a report with regard to uaps and then

3778
02:01:57,910 --> 02:01:56,480
they cite several specific things that

3779
02:01:59,589 --> 02:01:57,920
they would like to have

3780
02:02:00,629 --> 02:01:59,599
i made some discrete inquiries with

3781
02:02:01,910 --> 02:02:00,639
people i know that are in the

3782
02:02:05,109 --> 02:02:01,920
intelligence world

3783
02:02:08,149 --> 02:02:05,119
and they basically had told me

3784
02:02:11,030 --> 02:02:08,159
that this is a request

3785
02:02:12,310 --> 02:02:11,040
be very clear this is not an order it's

3786
02:02:14,790 --> 02:02:12,320
not a mandate

3787
02:02:15,830 --> 02:02:14,800
and they are not required under any

3788
02:02:18,950 --> 02:02:15,840
certain terms

3789
02:02:20,870 --> 02:02:18,960
to fulfill that request and so

3790
02:02:22,550 --> 02:02:20,880
i think that is the best thing i can say

3791
02:02:23,669 --> 02:02:22,560
with regard to that again i defer to the

3792
02:02:24,790 --> 02:02:23,679
experts people that are in the

3793
02:02:27,270 --> 02:02:24,800
intelligence world

3794
02:02:29,669 --> 02:02:27,280
that i know that know about these things

3795
02:02:31,589 --> 02:02:29,679
i certainly don't in the civilian sector

3796
02:02:32,709 --> 02:02:31,599
but i tend to take their word and to

3797
02:02:35,270 --> 02:02:32,719
your point ryan

3798
02:02:36,629 --> 02:02:35,280
it's really tempering the expectations

3799
02:02:38,950 --> 02:02:36,639
at the end of the day

3800
02:02:40,629 --> 02:02:38,960
uh regardless of what comes out with the

3801
02:02:42,310 --> 02:02:40,639
uap task force if they

3802
02:02:44,709 --> 02:02:42,320
maybe they will generate a report i hope

3803
02:02:46,870 --> 02:02:44,719
i'm pleasantly proven wrong

3804
02:02:48,629 --> 02:02:46,880
but whatever they come out with it's not

3805
02:02:50,229 --> 02:02:48,639
going to change the nature of what i've

3806
02:02:51,910 --> 02:02:50,239
done for 30 years or what i will

3807
02:02:53,430 --> 02:02:51,920
continue to do with regard to my

3808
02:02:54,950 --> 02:02:53,440
research on the subject

3809
02:02:56,790 --> 02:02:54,960
i don't lose sleep over what the

3810
02:02:57,990 --> 02:02:56,800
government may or may not do or may or

3811
02:03:00,709 --> 02:02:58,000
may not say

3812
02:03:02,870 --> 02:03:00,719
um at the end of the day you know i'm

3813
02:03:04,709 --> 02:03:02,880
still going to analyze the research

3814
02:03:05,830 --> 02:03:04,719
in some respects it's a distraction i

3815
02:03:07,109 --> 02:03:05,840
think you might have used that term

3816
02:03:07,990 --> 02:03:07,119
earlier you know with regard to

3817
02:03:09,589 --> 02:03:08,000
something else

3818
02:03:11,350 --> 02:03:09,599
we need to be very careful about

3819
02:03:12,550 --> 02:03:11,360
distractions and like you said we don't

3820
02:03:13,669 --> 02:03:12,560
want to put blinders on where we're

3821
02:03:15,589 --> 02:03:13,679
ignoring stuff

3822
02:03:17,830 --> 02:03:15,599
but at the same time we need to have

3823
02:03:19,109 --> 02:03:17,840
focus don't get distracted with the new

3824
02:03:21,430 --> 02:03:19,119
shiny thing over here

3825
02:03:22,550 --> 02:03:21,440
continue to be focused on the data on

3826
02:03:25,189 --> 02:03:22,560
investigating

3827
02:03:26,070 --> 02:03:25,199
the the information and i i used to use

3828
02:03:28,709 --> 02:03:26,080
the analogy in

3829
02:03:29,830 --> 02:03:28,719
some of my early lectures for those

3830
02:03:31,669 --> 02:03:29,840
prior to all of this

3831
02:03:33,350 --> 02:03:31,679
now with the uap task force and coming

3832
02:03:33,910 --> 02:03:33,360
out where people would look back at blue

3833
02:03:35,589 --> 02:03:33,920
book

3834
02:03:37,350 --> 02:03:35,599
they would look back at the government

3835
02:03:40,310 --> 02:03:37,360
cover up quote unquote

3836
02:03:42,390 --> 02:03:40,320
and i've always been of the opinion if

3837
02:03:44,870 --> 02:03:42,400
you're interested in bugs

3838
02:03:46,310 --> 02:03:44,880
i want to i want to go see the bugs in

3839
02:03:48,470 --> 02:03:46,320
the field

3840
02:03:49,750 --> 02:03:48,480
not get an entomologist's opinion of

3841
02:03:51,270 --> 02:03:49,760
what do you think of the bugs

3842
02:03:53,270 --> 02:03:51,280
if you're really interested in bugs go

3843
02:03:55,350 --> 02:03:53,280
out in the field and look for the bugs

3844
02:03:56,550 --> 02:03:55,360
you know and that's i feel like trying

3845
02:03:57,589 --> 02:03:56,560
to chase down well what did the

3846
02:03:59,750 --> 02:03:57,599
government

3847
02:04:02,229 --> 02:03:59,760
what did they maybe know or not know

3848
02:04:03,830 --> 02:04:02,239
back in 1950 or 1960

3849
02:04:04,790 --> 02:04:03,840
you're probably never going to know

3850
02:04:06,229 --> 02:04:04,800
you're probably going to get thrown a

3851
02:04:07,109 --> 02:04:06,239
lot of red herrings and at the end of

3852
02:04:08,790 --> 02:04:07,119
the day

3853
02:04:10,709 --> 02:04:08,800
how is that helping you answer what are

3854
02:04:13,350 --> 02:04:10,719
you what are ufos

3855
02:04:14,790 --> 02:04:13,360
look at the ufo reports themselves that

3856
02:04:17,910 --> 02:04:14,800
is ultimately the crux of this whole

3857
02:04:21,030 --> 02:04:17,920
phenomenon or what people are reporting

3858
02:04:23,270 --> 02:04:21,040
yes exactly and by saying people i think

3859
02:04:26,229 --> 02:04:23,280
it's also important to keep in mind

3860
02:04:28,709 --> 02:04:26,239
civilian witnesses i mean yes um having

3861
02:04:32,310 --> 02:04:28,719
a pilot or a military officer

3862
02:04:34,390 --> 02:04:32,320
trained observers is uh very important

3863
02:04:36,709 --> 02:04:34,400
and that's what um i think a lot of the

3864
02:04:39,189 --> 02:04:36,719
mainstream is going to pay attention to

3865
02:04:41,030 --> 02:04:39,199
uh and what its uap task force is

3866
02:04:42,950 --> 02:04:41,040
probably going to be looking at but for

3867
02:04:45,189 --> 02:04:42,960
every one of those military

3868
02:04:47,109 --> 02:04:45,199
cases you know there's a hundred

3869
02:04:50,470 --> 02:04:47,119
civilians who saw a triangle

3870
02:04:51,990 --> 02:04:50,480
or something and if i can add

3871
02:04:53,910 --> 02:04:52,000
more comments to that you know people

3872
02:04:55,350 --> 02:04:53,920
are like well come on marlar you're

3873
02:04:56,870 --> 02:04:55,360
being overly skeptical they're going to

3874
02:04:58,709 --> 02:04:56,880
come out with a report

3875
02:05:00,149 --> 02:04:58,719
another reason i say that is based on

3876
02:05:03,270 --> 02:05:00,159
the input of people that know a lot more

3877
02:05:05,270 --> 02:05:03,280
than i do about these things but also

3878
02:05:09,109 --> 02:05:05,280
look at the three dod videos that have

3879
02:05:11,030 --> 02:05:09,119
been released since december 2017.

3880
02:05:12,229 --> 02:05:11,040
do we have one page of official

3881
02:05:14,709 --> 02:05:12,239
documentation

3882
02:05:15,430 --> 02:05:14,719
of analysis investigation on the part of

3883
02:05:18,470 --> 02:05:15,440
the of

3884
02:05:18,950 --> 02:05:18,480
atip or the uap task force relative to

3885
02:05:22,069 --> 02:05:18,960
those

3886
02:05:24,550 --> 02:05:22,079
videos we don't have one page

3887
02:05:26,629 --> 02:05:24,560
zero nada so the best predictor of

3888
02:05:29,109 --> 02:05:26,639
future behaviors past behavior

3889
02:05:30,310 --> 02:05:29,119
we've had going on what three years now

3890
02:05:33,430 --> 02:05:30,320
a little over three years

3891
02:05:35,270 --> 02:05:33,440
since those videos have come out and we

3892
02:05:37,350 --> 02:05:35,280
don't have any official documentation or

3893
02:05:39,270 --> 02:05:37,360
analyses of those videos

3894
02:05:41,270 --> 02:05:39,280
so i'm happy the videos are out there

3895
02:05:43,189 --> 02:05:41,280
i'm happy we are where we are

3896
02:05:45,030 --> 02:05:43,199
where they're acknowledging the uap

3897
02:05:46,470 --> 02:05:45,040
reality that there are these things

3898
02:05:48,709 --> 02:05:46,480
flying around

3899
02:05:50,709 --> 02:05:48,719
but if you're looking for documentation

3900
02:05:53,189 --> 02:05:50,719
disclosure as people love to

3901
02:05:54,470 --> 02:05:53,199
use that word we don't have anything but

3902
02:05:56,149 --> 02:05:54,480
3dod videos

3903
02:05:57,510 --> 02:05:56,159
and nothing to back it up in the way of

3904
02:06:00,069 --> 02:05:57,520
analysis or

3905
02:06:01,669 --> 02:06:00,079
insight into how they operate what's

3906
02:06:03,669 --> 02:06:01,679
going on

3907
02:06:05,030 --> 02:06:03,679
yeah that's so true i mean it took the

3908
02:06:07,510 --> 02:06:05,040
former head of the

3909
02:06:08,149 --> 02:06:07,520
other pentagon ufo program to leave the

3910
02:06:11,030 --> 02:06:08,159
program

3911
02:06:11,669 --> 02:06:11,040
to give us any data and insight on that

3912
02:06:13,589 --> 02:06:11,679
absolutely

3913
02:06:15,589 --> 02:06:13,599
so that's why i just tempered my

3914
02:06:18,229 --> 02:06:15,599
enthusiasm as you mentioned

3915
02:06:18,870 --> 02:06:18,239
yep yep again welcome to the ufo

3916
02:06:20,950 --> 02:06:18,880
research

3917
02:06:23,430 --> 02:06:20,960
field well um david i'm gonna have you

3918
02:06:25,589 --> 02:06:23,440
stick around for our patreon subscribers

3919
02:06:26,550 --> 02:06:25,599
to tell us probably one of the most

3920
02:06:29,589 --> 02:06:26,560
fascinating

3921
02:06:30,149 --> 02:06:29,599
physiological ufo cases i've ever heard

3922
02:06:33,030 --> 02:06:30,159
about

3923
02:06:33,669 --> 02:06:33,040
um that you've looked into seriously for

3924
02:06:35,830 --> 02:06:33,679
our

3925
02:06:37,750 --> 02:06:35,840
patreon subscribers please stick around

3926
02:06:39,430 --> 02:06:37,760
for that thank you for doing that dave

3927
02:06:42,069 --> 02:06:39,440
um but before we go

3928
02:06:42,790 --> 02:06:42,079
um this has been i just i i don't even

3929
02:06:47,109 --> 02:06:42,800
know what to say

3930
02:06:48,870 --> 02:06:47,119
this was a interview 205 episodes in the

3931
02:06:50,629 --> 02:06:48,880
making i'm so happy you

3932
02:06:52,950 --> 02:06:50,639
you were able to stick around for this

3933
02:06:55,669 --> 02:06:52,960
long but um

3934
02:06:56,790 --> 02:06:55,679
if if there's one thing you want to tell

3935
02:07:00,550 --> 02:06:56,800
the people out there

3936
02:07:01,350 --> 02:07:00,560
about why we do this why we find this

3937
02:07:04,310 --> 02:07:01,360
topic

3938
02:07:06,470 --> 02:07:04,320
so fascinating worth pursuing putting

3939
02:07:09,270 --> 02:07:06,480
our reputations on the line

3940
02:07:10,870 --> 02:07:09,280
and uh just living our lives living and

3941
02:07:12,229 --> 02:07:10,880
breathing this stuff yeah we have our

3942
02:07:14,310 --> 02:07:12,239
own personal lives clue

3943
02:07:15,910 --> 02:07:14,320
but this takes up a lot of it um what

3944
02:07:19,109 --> 02:07:15,920
would you say to people out there

3945
02:07:21,030 --> 02:07:19,119
um who may want to get uh may want to

3946
02:07:22,069 --> 02:07:21,040
get into this field this crazy field we

3947
02:07:24,069 --> 02:07:22,079
found ourselves in

3948
02:07:25,350 --> 02:07:24,079
sure well you know again i'll allude to

3949
02:07:26,709 --> 02:07:25,360
these these cabinets that are sitting

3950
02:07:28,390 --> 02:07:26,719
next to me chock full of thousands of

3951
02:07:32,310 --> 02:07:28,400
ufo case files

3952
02:07:35,109 --> 02:07:32,320
if just one of these case files is truly

3953
02:07:36,870 --> 02:07:35,119
of an unknown object from some other

3954
02:07:39,669 --> 02:07:36,880
intelligence from god knows where

3955
02:07:41,350 --> 02:07:39,679
god knows when it's the biggest story in

3956
02:07:43,270 --> 02:07:41,360
our human history

3957
02:07:44,950 --> 02:07:43,280
and i mean i don't think you can

3958
02:07:47,830 --> 02:07:44,960
oversell that i mean

3959
02:07:48,870 --> 02:07:47,840
if just one and so it's again it's not a

3960
02:07:51,350 --> 02:07:48,880
matter of of

3961
02:07:52,149 --> 02:07:51,360
believing but how can you summarily

3962
02:07:53,830 --> 02:07:52,159
disbelieve

3963
02:07:56,550 --> 02:07:53,840
all of these reports and all of this

3964
02:07:59,830 --> 02:07:56,560
corroborative testimony and evidence

3965
02:08:02,390 --> 02:07:59,840
um and you know beyond that uh

3966
02:08:04,069 --> 02:08:02,400
i feel compelled and i know you feel the

3967
02:08:06,390 --> 02:08:04,079
same way on this ryan

3968
02:08:07,750 --> 02:08:06,400
interviewing the dozens and if not

3969
02:08:09,510 --> 02:08:07,760
hundreds of people i've interviewed now

3970
02:08:13,030 --> 02:08:09,520
over the last 30 years

3971
02:08:14,950 --> 02:08:13,040
um the emotional impact the personal

3972
02:08:16,390 --> 02:08:14,960
impact these experiences have had with

3973
02:08:18,069 --> 02:08:16,400
these people

3974
02:08:20,229 --> 02:08:18,079
until you've interviewed them until

3975
02:08:21,669 --> 02:08:20,239
you've really encountered

3976
02:08:23,990 --> 02:08:21,679
some of these witnesses that have had

3977
02:08:27,030 --> 02:08:24,000
extremely dramatic experiences

3978
02:08:29,430 --> 02:08:27,040
um i simply can't turn a blind eye to

3979
02:08:30,229 --> 02:08:29,440
the narratives or to them on a personal

3980
02:08:32,790 --> 02:08:30,239
level

3981
02:08:33,589 --> 02:08:32,800
and much like the the case you alluded

3982
02:08:36,470 --> 02:08:33,599
to

3983
02:08:37,750 --> 02:08:36,480
this burn victim case from 1964 that

3984
02:08:40,790 --> 02:08:37,760
we'll talk about

3985
02:08:42,390 --> 02:08:40,800
um you know that was an extremely

3986
02:08:45,430 --> 02:08:42,400
significant experience

3987
02:08:46,629 --> 02:08:45,440
and decades later this person is still

3988
02:08:48,149 --> 02:08:46,639
scratching their head trying to figure

3989
02:08:50,229 --> 02:08:48,159
out what happened so

3990
02:08:51,589 --> 02:08:50,239
you know to me it's like an itch you

3991
02:08:54,069 --> 02:08:51,599
just can't scratch

3992
02:08:55,270 --> 02:08:54,079
it's it's compelling it drives you it

3993
02:08:57,510 --> 02:08:55,280
motivates you

3994
02:08:59,030 --> 02:08:57,520
and but we just can't quite scratch it

3995
02:09:01,830 --> 02:08:59,040
and it's just that ever

3996
02:09:02,310 --> 02:09:01,840
elusive mystery that just fuels my

3997
02:09:05,510 --> 02:09:02,320
interest

3998
02:09:07,030 --> 02:09:05,520
and um once i think you're exposed to

3999
02:09:07,669 --> 02:09:07,040
the subject if you're honest with

4000
02:09:09,830 --> 02:09:07,679
yourself

4001
02:09:11,350 --> 02:09:09,840
you're honest with the data you just

4002
02:09:13,750 --> 02:09:11,360
can't turn away from it

4003
02:09:14,629 --> 02:09:13,760
and uh you know my life's not been the

4004
02:09:17,589 --> 02:09:14,639
same since

4005
02:09:19,270 --> 02:09:17,599
and uh i'll never see myself walking

4006
02:09:21,270 --> 02:09:19,280
away from the subject matter

4007
02:09:22,709 --> 02:09:21,280
it's just too compelling the questions

4008
02:09:26,069 --> 02:09:22,719
that it raises

4009
02:09:30,310 --> 02:09:26,079
with regard to who we are where we are

4010
02:09:32,390 --> 02:09:30,320
our place in reality what is reality um

4011
02:09:33,350 --> 02:09:32,400
it it just begs all those questions and

4012
02:09:35,750 --> 02:09:33,360
so

4013
02:09:37,109 --> 02:09:35,760
i don't see i'm biased of course but i

4014
02:09:39,510 --> 02:09:37,119
don't see how you can't be interested in

4015
02:09:41,109 --> 02:09:39,520
ufos quite honestly

4016
02:09:43,910 --> 02:09:41,119
i couldn't put it better man that is a

4017
02:09:47,189 --> 02:09:43,920
mic drop if i've ever heard one

4018
02:09:49,189 --> 02:09:47,199
um but before we go please tell us where

4019
02:09:50,229 --> 02:09:49,199
can we find the book and everything

4020
02:09:52,310 --> 02:09:50,239
you're up to

4021
02:09:58,470 --> 02:09:52,320
sure uh probably best to go to my

4022
02:10:00,310 --> 02:09:58,480
website uh www.www.davidmarlerufo.com

4023
02:10:02,629 --> 02:10:00,320
there is a link to amazon where you can

4024
02:10:04,149 --> 02:10:02,639
purchase that uh there's an old link to

4025
02:10:05,750 --> 02:10:04,159
amazon where i know some people will

4026
02:10:07,270 --> 02:10:05,760
click on it and it says not available

4027
02:10:09,750 --> 02:10:07,280
the book is available

4028
02:10:11,189 --> 02:10:09,760
uh but best to go through my website and

4029
02:10:12,709 --> 02:10:11,199
there's a link right on the main page

4030
02:10:14,950 --> 02:10:12,719
you can click on the book cover

4031
02:10:16,149 --> 02:10:14,960
it'll take you right there and the one

4032
02:10:17,830 --> 02:10:16,159
thing i would ask though is

4033
02:10:19,189 --> 02:10:17,840
uh you know obviously if you purchase

4034
02:10:20,069 --> 02:10:19,199
the book or if you have purchased the

4035
02:10:21,830 --> 02:10:20,079
book

4036
02:10:23,669 --> 02:10:21,840
if you haven't reached out with feedback

4037
02:10:25,990 --> 02:10:23,679
both on amazon which is always

4038
02:10:26,950 --> 02:10:26,000
very helpful i always appreciate reader

4039
02:10:29,669 --> 02:10:26,960
feedback

4040
02:10:31,030 --> 02:10:29,679
help it helps me gauge am i providing

4041
02:10:33,270 --> 02:10:31,040
valuable information

4042
02:10:35,189 --> 02:10:33,280
and you know how is that helping you in

4043
02:10:38,390 --> 02:10:35,199
your research endeavors and in your

4044
02:10:38,709 --> 02:10:38,400
investigation at this subject i love

4045
02:10:41,990 --> 02:10:38,719
that

4046
02:10:44,390 --> 02:10:42,000
hopefully making

4047
02:10:45,669 --> 02:10:44,400
it out there to dig through those files

4048
02:10:47,750 --> 02:10:45,679
with you someday

4049
02:10:48,790 --> 02:10:47,760
you know you have an invitation ryan you

4050
02:10:51,189 --> 02:10:48,800
just let me know and we'll

4051
02:10:52,950 --> 02:10:51,199
we'll have that door wide open for you

4052
02:10:54,390 --> 02:10:52,960
thank you thank you david and thank you

4053
02:10:55,270 --> 02:10:54,400
so much for coming on somewhere in the

4054
02:11:13,940 --> 02:10:55,280
sky sure

4055
02:11:39,930 --> 02:11:22,830
[Music]